Don't worry, I'm not gonna start any sword fights. I'm over that phase.

Mal ,'War Stories'


Procedurals 1: Anything You Say Can and Will Be Used Against You.

This thread is for procedural TV, shows where the primary idea is to figure out the case. [NAFDA]


§ ita § - Oct 29, 2013 6:13:07 am PDT #10214 of 11831
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Are we supposed to assume that Alexis doesn't care about a key difference between Pi and Beckett--that she liked Beckett before they committed to each other, and Pi hasn't displayed anything intrinsic to him that her father would like? That he was a crap and ungracious guest and the only thing going for him is the word of a nineteen year old?

This is the point where we shrug and accept that she's got to act like a teenager sometime? I mean, I'd like the storyline a whole lot better if I didn't hate Pi too, and "because I love him" only counts for some of it, not all of a response.


brenda m - Oct 29, 2013 6:52:48 am PDT #10215 of 11831
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

She's 19. That seems 100% in character to me. A non-Alexis might have gone through the same thing at 15 or 16 when the stakes were lower - downside of the mature adolescent. Not that I speak from experience.


WindSparrow - Oct 29, 2013 7:12:41 am PDT #10216 of 11831
Love is stronger than death and harder than sorrow. Those who practice it are fierce like the light of stars traveling eons to pierce the night.

A non-Alexis might have gone through the same thing at 15 or 16 when the stakes were lower - downside of the mature adolescent.

That's kinda my take on it, too. While we assume that Alexis's type is as ambitious as she is, it might well be that Pi really does have a passion for saving the environment (or some other worthy cause) that she has seen him work passionately for, enough to satisfy her need to have an ambitious partner. And his more laid back qualities might be a good counterpoint to her potentially type-A personality. I am not saying that I particularly think Pi is Alexis's long-haul guy, but he might be someone she can learn a lot with, other than the heartbreak of not listening to daddy.

I do not think that Castle has addressed any legitimate concerns he has about Pi in a way that overcomes his dislike of a boy who might take away his little girl.


§ ita § - Oct 29, 2013 7:49:06 am PDT #10217 of 11831
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

She's 19. That seems 100% in character to me.

But I think the show seems to be lending her more credence than I think her position deserves. If they hadn't made Pi so ludicrous, I could feel for her more, but there's a much bigger hurdle for her last speech to clear because all I can think is that she's incredibly disappointing--they're not writing her less maturely, they're writing her as maturely as she always was, with one stance that stands out.

I don't see how that Alexis didn't see any of what the script has made obvious about Pi, no matter how many bees he saves, how she doesn't seem to be encouraging him to meet her father in a middle ground, to not be such a crap guest--I'm not saying that she shouldn't date him, but making her father the villain (as far as we know--the writers can show us another side, but haven't) seems OOC for me, and I also think the "you didn't tell me about Caskett" seemed like a hurried way for the writers to lend her some credence, making it seem clumsier than anything else to me.


WindSparrow - Oct 29, 2013 8:18:45 am PDT #10218 of 11831
Love is stronger than death and harder than sorrow. Those who practice it are fierce like the light of stars traveling eons to pierce the night.

I don't see how that Alexis didn't see any of what the script has made obvious about Pi, no matter how many bees he saves, how she doesn't seem to be encouraging him to meet her father in a middle ground, to not be such a crap guest-

The thing is, really, that it is hard to tell if it is slip-shod writing that is making both Castle and Alexis not talk directly about Pi's behavior, which is objective - or if the writing is supposed to be showing specifically that Castle's objections are subjective. I mean, whether you like someone or not, it is easy to say, "hey, I stepped on the belt that you left lying on the floor. It hurt really badly. Please don't do that again." Or maybe not easy, but it is a thing that can be said which does not cause rifts in a family. The fact that they are not dealing with specific behavior leaves the impression that Castle's objections to Pi are all "I just don't like him, and look, he's sloppy and lax and a freeloader. See, that's why I don't like him."


Trudy Booth - Oct 29, 2013 8:44:41 am PDT #10219 of 11831
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

My impression is that Rick wouldn't like anyone his "little girl" brought home. If he were super driven and they were having dates at lectures by famous professors he'd go back to complaining about her not being a kid and having fun.

I'm a little annoyed that the fact that she was drugged and abducted was simply never mentioned again (maybe in one subsequent episode?) If he thought she'd be safer in the loft than the hood that would make sense.

The one thing I really DID like was her declining ice cream. If she's growing up and he's not that's a pretty interesting dynamic.


§ ita § - Oct 29, 2013 8:49:53 am PDT #10220 of 11831
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

The fact that they are not dealing with specific behavior leaves the impression that Castle's objections to Pi are all "I just don't like him, and look, he's sloppy and lax and a freeloader.

But we get to see Pi being a sloppy freeloader. So we know what Rick knows, with no explanation of why he can't use his words with Alexis, but we have no Alexis PoV, so we don't know why she can't tell he's a) sloppy and b) freeloading, both of which behaviours seem pretty obvious.

The one thing I really DID like was her declining ice cream. If she's growing up and he's not that's a pretty interesting dynamic.

Her speech at the end would have been really great if they'd left any room for subjectivity. No matter if Rick would hate anyone, this guy isn't anyone. Mocking the bee work was petulant and childish, but this is the first episode where Rick was whining and Pi did nothing out of line.

Maybe we were to be shown that there was nothing right Pi could do? Fair. But you still have to address the annoying things Pi did without a care in the world. Loving the bees is great, but being a douchecanoe to fellow humans isn't.


Trudy Booth - Oct 29, 2013 9:40:51 am PDT #10221 of 11831
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

I see two different issues. Pi is a lousy guest and Rick wanted him the hell out of his house. He's gone now.

Now he needs a non-houseguest reason to dislike the guy and has moved onto bees. And the futon. I don't think its rash for Alexa, having fixed the problem, to think her father is hating the guy just to hate him.

Particularly since a) she's dealt with a string of her father's romances and b) an environmentalist isn't good enough for her daddy who's got the super-stable career of... fiction writer? Sure, it worked out well for him, but at 20 he was likely no more financially promising than Pi.


Trudy Booth - Oct 29, 2013 9:46:10 am PDT #10222 of 11831
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

WindSparrow - Oct 29, 2013 10:08:21 am PDT #10223 of 11831
Love is stronger than death and harder than sorrow. Those who practice it are fierce like the light of stars traveling eons to pierce the night.

But we get to see Pi being a sloppy freeloader. So we know what Rick knows, with no explanation of why he can't use his words with Alexis, but we have no Alexis PoV, so we don't know why she can't tell he's a) sloppy and b) freeloading, both of which behaviours seem pretty obvious.

That is why it is hard to tell if it is poor writing insofar as Castle could be saying, "I don't like the belt left on the floor," but instead is seeming to say, "I don't like this guy you brought home (look, he left his belt on the floor, that's why I don't like him, I knew when you brought him here he would do that because boy and hair and woowoo)." I mean, if they intend for Castle to not like Pi and therefore not handle things rationally, they are doing a bang-up job.