Plei is right. But the POTC trigger should be added to the Wiscon panel on "cultural appropriation" (Part 1), where IIRC, all the panelists were white and the entire discussion was just chock-ful of white liberal attitudes and no understanding of the perspective of POCs. A POC who attended the panel came home and wrote up her thoughts on her LJ, and that started a whole big thing.

She ended up as one of the founders of IBARW.

Ah. I had no idea.

I am weirdly insular, fannishly. I watched most of Buffy on my own, just nattering about it to Stephen. Fandom still startles me sometimes.

Anyone want to give me a nutshell description of what is meant by "cultural appropriation"?

Quick links for IBARW:

IBARW 2006 round-up post: [link]

IBARW community (includes the 2007 & 2008 round-up posts): [link]

There's a lot of interesting reading in there, but I don't think the either the POTC debate or the Wiscon write-up are included. I could be wrong, though.

Reading all this, I realize that it never occurred to me that there was the element of rape (it actually reminds me of Owen's use of the phereomone thingy in Torchwood). Maybe it was that I was tired, or I wasn't paying enough attention to pick up what the show wasn't laying out explicitly.

I agree that they could have quickly addressed that there was more to a story that we would never see, a comment about how pissed she was going to be when the townsfolk started asking her why she and Wes called off the engagement (it was in the paper, and they weren't a discreet couple). So, even if she doesn't remember at the end of the ep, she'll soon find out (especially if she can't remember the last month).

I also agree that nowhere in the story was her victimization the point (and, btw, oh how I rolled my eyes at the shower scene in the beginning. I don't recall who said it, but I also was excitedly expecting it to be Dean (or Sam). Dunno why).

the huge, huge debate about cultural appropriation in the wake of PotC 2

The hell? I just thought the movie sucked.

it actually reminds me of Owen's use of the phereomone thingy in Torchwood

Which was also, basically, rape, and called out as such by many fans. Didn't stop them from watching the show, but many people never got over their disgust with Owen for that.

I'm going to go sit on Amy's bench too. I called Warren on Wes during the watch and post. I saw his face as Hope didn't even know his name again when the wish was undone. He was punished, the degree to which is going to be arguable. For me, and I value other points of view, Show did it's job.

I do have to recap it, Austin. Demian needs a little more time off. We're going to take it week by week.

Oh no. On the bright side, we get to be entertained by you. And I felt alot better about the episode after I watched it again, so I developed a little pity for it.

Second time around allowed me to pick up on some of the Edlund lines that I missed. How I miss the Tick.

I'm not sure where I read that. Maybe in fic, who knows. But I'm pretty sure he did, even if he doesn't anymore.

I think you are right Amy. There are pictures. Not that pictures prove anything other than at one point for one moment something happened. I'm coming up on two years without a cigarette though and I want to know how people have the will power not to smoke in their car. I could have easily not smoked if someone was riding with me, but if it was a car of mine and I drove it any length of time, at some point, I smoked in it.

My personal interpretation is that it is magic. And even though Joxer remembers what he did none of it actually happened. This makes no sense but there would be no reason for the magical object (which came from what magical entitities?) to punish whatshername for what he did. . . or I suppose what she did (wishing Sam dead) under the influence.

Translation, please: PotC 2? My brain keeps saying "People of the Corn 2," and I'm just not remembering any movies by that name.

Ah ha! I think I had a moment of clarity -- "Pirates of the Carribean," yes? And yes, it was a dreadful movie.

Which was also, basically, rape, and called out as such by many fans. Didn't stop them from watching the show, but many people never got over their disgust with Owen for that.

I'm in this camp. Although I find the show's blasé use of Retcon as objectionable (perhaps moreso WRT Gwen using it on Rhys to negate a reaction she didn't like rather than the usual impersonal use in the name of security). I do, however, give Torchwood credit for finally buying a clue and depicting the violation of people's memories as reprehensible in "Adam."