Sam was the subject of a wish. Granted, less of a lasting one, but it was undone. Though he appeared to perhaps recall. Magic 8 ball says reply hazy, ask again later.

I did get the impression that we were supposed to be skeeved. But that they either failed to carry things to the logical conclusion. And it would have been satisfying to have her punch the crap out of him.

I did get the impression that we were supposed to be skeeved.

I was skeeved. I still felt sorry for him, too, though, in the end. I guess I just don't feel like I need to look at her trauma under a microscope to get that it was dead wrong.

But that they either failed to carry things to the logical conclusion. And it would have been satisfying to have her punch the crap out of him.

Yup. Everything could have been (mostly) solved to my satisfaction by her reacting in horror and telling him to stay away from her/asking him how he could have done that/punching the hell out of him.

Actually, no. I wanted her to react in horror, ask him how he could have done that, and then tell him to stay away from her. Because then Wes has the double whammy of knowing that he hurt her and never being able to see her again. Bring the pain, mofos.

But the emotional punch for me worked the way I assume Show wanted it to.

I'm not trying to excuse the storyline. I'm just saying that's a plausible reason as to why she's the only person involved who has no memory of the events.

I understand the need to figure out the possible logic behind a mystical act, because, heaven knows, I'm extremely literal. In fact, I like your explanation. But, emotionally, I'm where Amy's at. The show is about metaphor. I try to keep that in mind when I watch the show and not look for anything other than what I see in the show. I used to look at Buffy like it had all the answers to the universe in it and after season 6, I just gave up. I don't do that with TV shows anymore, at least, not purposely. I'm sure I slip, but I really don't want to.

I would be a lot more measured in my response if this show didn't have a history of handling female characters really really badly. And like Plei and Juliana say, it wouldn't have taken much for them to actually acknowledge the wrong here.

As it is, one could easily walk away from this episode and not realize that Hope was raped for a month by the sympathetic geek. Thinking that what Wes did was kinda dodgy, but not actually bad.

I'm not gonna cut them slack just because the show usually deals in metaphor.

So rather than starting from zero with a new season we're watchdogging this particular show, more than new and returning shows which disrespect women with impunity right and left...because? Season three really fell down on race and gender issues?

Seems to me that their standard this season has been, compared to last, fairly high, with the exception of Yellow Fever--and I'm not discounting that may have been a fumble attempting to display character changes--and the lack of a punch to Wes' face by Hope.

My feeling was that the portion of the episode that didn't deal with Sam, Dean, and their respective issues was presented from Wes' point of view. And he saw her distress, and was guilt-stricken about it*, even before the brothers confronted him. True, she didn't get the payoff, but then nothing in the episode was presented from her POV. I may be insensitive and a bad feminist, but it didn't seem odd or wrong to me that Hope wasn't seen to extract revenge by the end of the episode. I have no doubt she will do. But that Wes was seen to understand and suffer remorse from his action seemed sufficient, from his POV.**

I'm from the school of parenting that feels ensuring a child understands and feels and carries the burden of having done a wrong thing (and makes reparation) teaches more than punishment imposed by an outside source. And that when someone has screwed up badly, you give points for improvement rather than pegging your expectations even higher; that feels like a sure formula for failure. *shrugs* Maybe I'm too kumbayah, I don't know.

ETA:*enough that I think he would have done something on his own to cancel the wish had the brothers not confronted him about it.

**I also get that it's a slippery slope not giving viewers the woman's POV. But this isn't a show focused on empowering women, it's never going to be. I agree wholeheartedly the writers desperately need to be more aware of attitudes and stances simply taken for granted, so that things don't wind up in scripts due to laziness or carelessness. But I can't ask this one show to serve the feminist cause above story and viewership and retaining sponsors.

I'll sing Kumbayah with you, Bev.

Thanks, Sail. We can sing while we sit with Amy. I meant to say that's where you'd find me, on her bench.

So rather than starting from zero with a new season we're watchdogging this particular show, more than new and returning shows which disrespect women with impunity right and left...because? Season three really fell down on race and gender issues?

I can't start from zero with new seasons - everything that has gone before informs my opinion in one way or the other. It's why it took me so long to see Season 5 of Angel - because S4 had so thoroughly lost me.

And for SPN - Season 3 pushed me far enough away that I'm second-guessing everything they're doing, I'm seeing the issues much more clearly and much faster than I did for S1 & S2, and I can't handwave everything away.

The only other show I watch is Sons Of Anarchy - and the race and gender issues are most definitely there, but they're real and they're dealt with in a mostly unflinching manner. No one gets a pass, and payback is usually shown.

What was Wes' reparation - undoing the wish? That's not reparation in my head - things still occurred, issues still need to be dealt with. But, it's not a show about that town, so we'll never see it, and I don't trust that the writers even thought about it.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, Bev, and I really did mostly like this ep. I just - I can't start from zero each season. I can't.

I can't start from zero with new seasons - everything that has gone before informs my opinion in one way or the other.

Okay, juliana, that's good for me to know, and obviously, you're not alone. It's not the way I operate, so I've been puzzled at people's expectations and quickness to jump on lapses, when I've been encouraged by improvement. Just a difference in processing. Thanks for telling me. I do occasionally need reminding that not everybody approaches things the right way. my way the same way.

(See, Raising the ADHD Child: Every day is a chance to start over; letting go of past failures)