Uriel is the Angel of Repentance, who is graphically represented as being as pitiless as any demon. and holds the keys to the Pit during the End Times.

Ah, now I know why the name Uriel was so familiar. I'd just assumed that I'd read a spoiler about him.

Turns out, a while back I came in here and posted almost that same quote (but from Wiki) about Uriel, and then realized that I'd wiki'd an angel from The Dresden Files u Small Favor instead of Castiel. But I'd been so excited about the "demon" comparison, and then felt like a dolt.

I would LOVE for JA and JP to do a Western about 10-15 years from now.

Yes! They just need to get a wee bit crinkly, first. And as Bev notes, it should be together (and also as Bev notes, neither Sam nor Dean should ever die again).

eta: That would be even more of an impact of Castiel confessing his conflicted feelings. It's not like Castiel can lose his faith. He knows God. They hang out. But Castiel can question what Castiel is doing even if he will always follow orders. He made the point that even if they aren't understood, that God's orders would be just. He did say that with conviction. He can have self-doubt, not know if he is doing the right thing, but as long as he continues to follow God, he is not fallen, right? Where are our theologians?

It's risky posting before writing the recap, because I haven't thought it all through and I don't want to give up everything I have thought through, but I think the above is quite likely, Austin. Tangentially, I'm hoping the exploration of prejudices (human > demon; demon > angel; angel > human; angel > demon) is intentional.

SAM-HAIN?! SAM-HAIN, SOME SORT OF DEMON?! Dear Kripke, please stop trying to make my head explode.

They way they pronounced "Sam Hain" bothered me more than them personifying Samhain. The boys deal in legend. They get wind of a case, look at all the lore surrounding the possible causes, and sometimes what they find to be the truth (in the show) differs from popular lore and understanding. For example, take Catiel possessing a human, and Ruby having once been a human, but turning into a demon while in hell. That's not the traditional understanding of angels and fallen angels (demons). Kripke's a gleaner.

Besides, it's not uncommon for different deities to be associated with a festival, so I think he had some room to play. I think they could have made Sam Hain More Samhain-ish, though -- tying him to fire, or to apples or nuts, or whatever, but at least he raised the dead, and they tied in the reason for costumes/masks.

As soon as I read that they were doing a Halloween episode and that they were characterizing Samhain as a demon - I KNEW that there would be bad reactions. I'm just very happy that the mytharc stuff was so good that it counters the bad, you know?

Sam Hain Reeeaaally?

It burns. That's all I can say.

I think the cheeziness ( of stuff like "Sam Hain" ) is really fundamental to the way the show works. The premise of the show is not only that the supernatural exists, but it works along the lines of American urban legends and popular culture - in spirit and general outline, even if details vary.

I'm not crediting the writers with doing this entirely deliberately - a lot of it is a result of sloppy research. But I suspect that more of it than we think is intentional. Incidentally, while I hope the gender and race issues ARE accidental, I think they actually contribute to this: American urban legends and popular culture is extremely racist and sexist and homophobic (though less than in the past). It could avoid this, but would have to put a lot more effort into doing so than the showrunner chooses to.

At any rate cheese whiz theology, (for example the book of revelations instead of revelation) is basic to the way the show works

Until this discussion, I never knew the proper pronunciation. I could easily see the boys mispronouncing it. But I also would have that that either during research or something that - "Oh, by the way, it is actually pronounced ....." would have come up.

Need to rewatch. Unfortunately am at work and likely won't have time until later tomorrow. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Speaking of urban legends. The authors of Made to Stick, a book I highly recommend, assert that the razor blades in apples and poisoned Halloween candy incidents have never actually happened.

The two times, since 1982 when children have died in Halloween related candy incidents, it was a relative killing the children to cover up criminal activity.

Still, the whole razorblade/bobbing for apples thing really worked for this episodes. Even though I knew it was coming, it creeped me right out.

Plus, I yelled out FRANK MILLER! when I saw the teacher and had to go imdb to make sure Frank wasn't branching out. Heh.

Frank Miller?

count me among those who didn't know how to properly pronounce Sam Hein and i think, to be fair to the writers/actors if they had pronounced it correctly a lot of people wouldn't have realized who they were talking about. i doubt the general public knows it's said any differently.

Until this discussion, I never knew the proper pronunciation. I could easily see the boys mispronouncing it.

I thought of this fanwank and then realized that the angels would not have mispronounced it. But I'm basically in tiggy's corner.

Frank Miller?

Because he looked like Frank Miller, apparently. I didn't see that, but the only time I've seen Frank Miller was a couple years ago from a distance.