I think this is what Misha meant by fine tooth comb. But it makes a difference. Did they or didn't they, and if they did, at what point did Sam know it was Ruby?

FTR, I don't think they did. I'm comfortable in that camp.

Meg was throwing arguments very similar to fan objections I've heard at Dean. What I can't tell is if Kripke was trying to make a point by having her be the effective villain of that scene, or if Dean's acknowledgment of guilt was supposed to set the tone.

Yeah, I'm not sure. I suspect the show is on the fence, but I do appreciate that they acknowledged the issue--no matter how hamhandedly. This episode was full of anvils.

But either way, if the body is unharmed, it can be returned intact, so yeah, there's definitely an element of nonconsensual sex/rape here, and Sam should have to deal with that.

Yeah, I caught that, Wolfram. They didn't quite acknowledge it, and it's still unsettled as to whether the Kristy in the first scene in the motel was actually Ruby, or if Ruby possessed her afterwards. Sam's reactions aren't sufficiently telling to make it clear. For the character's sake, I'd like to believe Sam wouldn't sleep with Ruby; on the other hand, it would make his ethical position a little more complicated and interesting, especially given the text in this week's episode. I just want to show to acknowledge it, though, if Sam actually has been sleeping with Ruby.

Also, WTF was that about Meg-the-demon dressing Meg "like a slut"? Tank tops and jeans and leather jackets make a slut now? Oh, dear. Shame on you, Sera--Meg had lots of issues, but she wasn't particularly sexually provocative, except in that one episode where she crawled all over Sam. Most of the rest of the time she was just dangerous.

Random thought--now that we are already in the fourth season, can we start thinking about a spin-off, please, Kripke? Castiel: The Series.

Also, WTF was that about Meg-the-demon dressing Meg "like a slut"?

I have been trying to hand-wave this as "more like a slut than human!Meg would have dressed". Maybe human!Meg was on the uptight side.

I thought we'd already had confirmation that the humans possessed by demons remember things. i mean, when they finally exorcised the demon inhabiting Meg, she told them she'd been trapped in there for a year. how would she have known that if she wasn't conscious?

i'm still in the camp that it was Ruby in the hotel room scene. still not sold either way if they are sleeping together. though, Meg's comments to Sam seemed to imply more was going on that just Ruby inhabiting an unwilling body...

Today I was thinking to myself that we've had 2 episodes now that focused almost entirely on Dean, and while that was expected last week, what with him rising from hell and all, I'm hoping this isn't setting a precedent. Then I read the following on Kroki-Refur's lj, which articulated my thoughts so much better:

I think I’m having a bit of a problem with Show, which is that every week I tune in and think, “OK, maybe this week they’ll tell us some of what Sam is thinking”. And usually I get to the end of the ep and go “huh. OK, well, maybe next week they’ll tell us some of what Sam is thinking.” But this week I really just got wise, I guess, and came to the conclusion that Show is never gonna tell us what Sam is thinking because Sam’s inner life is not important like Dean’s is. And then I went to the supermarket and I was thinking about it in the cheese aisle, as you do, and I thought dammit, I wanted Sam to have saved Dean from hell. I want Sam to have managed to save someone, but he never gets that. He goes along with Dean in the pilot because Dean appeals to his loyalty and love, and Jess gets burned to death. He shoots his father in the leg rather than the heart, and John ends up in hell and Dean ends up with a huge burden (and Sam’s grief is swept under the carpet). He doesn’t kill Jake as an act of mercy and he ends up getting shanked and Dean ends up selling his soul. He has faith in God and it turns out to be a restless spirit. He saves Dean’s life in Faith and it turns out to be at the expense of someone else’s life. He goes along with Dean’s wish for him not to use his powers, and Dean ends up in hell. Dean kills Stan, Dean gets raised from hell to do God’s work, Dean gets to choose hell to save his brother’s life, and Sam gets smacked down at every turn. I feel like the message of Show so far is that Sam isn’t allowed to be a good person, that he isn’t a being of free will but just a plot device who’s going to be forced to turn to the dark side because every time he tries not to, someone dies. And OK, that’s a fair enough message, in many ways, but I would like to see the effect this is having on Sam, to have Show acknowledge it the way it acknowledges the effect everything has on Dean’s emotional life, from his mother dying to him stubbing his toe. ... I guess I just wanted Sam to save Dean from hell, is all.

and

OK, you know what bugs me? Sam has a moment of guilt here, which is totally in character and more or less the only time in the ep he shows any kind of doubt at all, and he gets shut down by Dean immediately, and that guilt never rears its head again. Dean, meanwhile, gets to spend the entire episode being conflicted about one thing and another, including about exactly the same thing Sam was conflicted about, i.e. the ghosts and Meg’s death. Yep. That bugs me. And I’m sure some of it is just me being a Samgirl, but I’m trying my best to be objective and I am still annoyed.

I love watching the dynamic of the two of them together, but last season was spent on the Angst of Dean, so I'd like to see a bit more balance restored, and some time spent with Sam's storyline.

Ha.

And yet, for much of the past two seasons TWOPPERS were convinced that DEAN didn't have a storyline.

Misha being adorable. there are no spoilers if you've seen 4x02.

I dunno, I found it kinda freaky. Dude doesn't blink! My fix for that is to just watch his mouth. Mmmm...

"I'm not scared..."

Obviously, in contrast to my comment about Kruby during the premiere -- he hasn't been online much.