the Christmas one cheesed me off by painting pagans as unequivocally evil

See, that didn't ping me. It came across to me that those *particular* pagan *entities* were willing to do what they had to do to survive, i.e. if no one was going to make sacrifices to them, they'd do the sacrificing themselves.

Oh! Yes, the brutal knifing scene - was that in this episode? Yes, that was particularly nasty and gratuitous. The image (along with the crossroads demon getting shot in the face) has stayed in my head, but I'd forgotten the context.

Practicing witchcraft for lower mortgage rates, free trips to Hawaii and a promotion for their husbands? This what women will sell their souls for?

I see what you mean. At the time this didn't ping me, because that whole Desperate Housewives thing is already a trope, like the Frankenstein thing, or the Groundhog Day thing. I pretty much took the triviality and materialism as just part of the trope, rather than an SPN thing - and for me that was more a commentary on class than on gender. I don't know why, though, because I certainly see your point.

Aside from the skeevy treatment of women in Malleus Malificarum, that episode and the Christmas one cheesed me off by painting pagans as unequivocally evil.

Ooh, really? I'll have to rewatch - I didn't take that on board at the time. I agree - that's sloppy writing. The episode made me wince a bit because it was doing that contrived A Very Special Episode thing, but I loved the flashbacks to Wee!Dean and Wee!Sam (for I am always a sucker for that), and the whole thing of Dean building up their dad as a superhero, with the Santa parallels. I liked that. Well, and I also liked the idea of an Evil!Santa dragging people up the chimney to a grisly deaeth. (Plus, I'd already read the fabulous Mithras fic that ties in with the ep, and was tickled to death by that. And, as previously mentioned, the whole American Gods thing. Love that.)

The Christmas episode I loved, because it wasn't that Pagans Are Evil for me so much as Gods Will Do What They Have To.

Which, you know, is meant as a lesson for YOU Mister Antichrist Sammichpants.

I pretty much took the triviality and materialism as just part of the trope, rather than an SPN thing - and for me that was more a commentary on class than on gender. I don't know why, though, because I certainly see your point.

Oh, it's totally part of the sadly common trope, but it bothers me every time I see it. This one just pinged a little harder than usual. The Winchesters are trying to save the world (and Dean) but the women are getting better mortgage rates. Eh.

Going on SPN benders, it's startling to watch the boys lose ... not their humanity precisely but they are somehow colder than I recall in seasons one and two.

The Christmas episode I loved, because it wasn't that Pagans Are Evil for me so much as Gods Will Do What They Have To.

Which, you know, is meant as a lesson for YOU Mister Antichrist Sammichpants.

Yes, this!

Going on SPN benders, it's startling to watch the boys lose ... not their humanity precisely but they are somehow colder than I recall in seasons one and two.

I'm not sure Dean does, at least in the end of the season. I was surprised how firmly he held onto his very particular Dean standards about right and wrong, especially when it came to his own fate. And I didn't think he looked altogether thrilled about Sam saying he needed to be more like Dean.

Sam, though, yeah. Sam's letting the steel in that nice long spine show, and it's definitely pretty icy sometimes.

I didn't so much mind the fact that the "Book Club" housewives were pagan as that they apparently were able to contact and manipulate occult forces via a level of expertise and dedication similar to that required by TV dinner instructions. I like it better when the occult is depicted as rare, on the hidden fringes of society, and taking years of concentrated study to master. People shouldn't be able to check Harry Potter books out of a suburban library and use them to make deals with the Devil.

People shouldn't be able to check Harry Potter books out of a suburban library and use them to make deals with the Devil.

Though, were they maybe being manipulated by the demon that was using them? Perhaps giving them access to something that they otherwise wouldn't have had access to, and making it easier for them to use it?

I always thought that magic being easy to do was the only justification for having characters go out of their way to keep its reality secret. I mean if there really are vampires and werewolves and such, let people know so they can defend themselves or at least take precautions. But if anyone can learn with about fifteen minutes work to summon demons that will kill 100 people, that is a justification for keeping it secret. The number of people the police will be able to protect against werewolves and such will be much smaller than the number killed by magic people do to get laid, get ahead or get revenge.

That's how they explained it in the episode, that the demon was providing the power for their spells without them knowing. I still think it should take a lot more know-how and effort to make that initial contact that attracts the demon's attention though. This was the equivalent of someone being on the hook for a mortgage because they clipped pictures of the house they want out of the newspaper rather than going through a bank and signing a deal.

Things I loved: Dean; Bad Day at Black Rock (one of the funniest things I've seen in AGES - that was some splendid writing and just glorious physical comedy, imho); Dean's Not!Son (Awwww! Such cuteness!); Fairy Tales coming true; The Black Pearl Ghost Ships; Groundhog Day & the return of the Trickster; "GhostFacers!"; Henrikson's revelation; Wee!Dean trying to give Sam a Christmas by stealing presents from the kid down the street; The Evil Christmas God Duo*. (Do love how very much this show continues to dovetail with Giaman's American Gods.)

Hee. I loved all these things as well! And most of your thoughts mirror my own.