Jesse has confirmed that some lurkers contribute funds. I don't know if further refining who gives and who doesn't or how much or whatever would be useful.

I would say, based on my experience, that Natter and Bitches are core community Buffista threads inasmuch as there's no reason to post there except to take part in the community. Which is not to say that solely posting in the show threads or music thread or whatever is NOT taking part in the community, it clearly is.

I thought that might lead me towards some sort of conclusion, but apparently not.

In the past there was real concern over what would happen with an influx of fans from Firefly and when the board was linked to in various sources.

When we were discussing our rules and regulations for dealing with unruly board members, there were fears that at some point, new people might be able to use what ever criteria we came up for to run out long term members.

I think the concern that lurkers or people who aren't "core" over ruling the core users is coming from that same place.

I suggested the idea for a census not because I think thre are 1000 lurkers out there, but that I don't think we, as a group, have a clear idea on how our members use board.

We know our personal use and the use of people we are close to but not everyone and it would be nice to see how people use the board.

Moreover, this seems to be a touchy issue for something that's not really serious.

I think it's the most serious thing that's come up. It defines who gets to make the decisions. And if this discussion is likely to make lurkers or less active poster want to raise their voices, I'd be very surprised. And, yes, I know someone's going to say, "Then they can just deal with it," and that's a point. But wholesale dismissal is very disturbing to me.

I'm not asking for some sort of quantifiable "And 10% to those we don't hear from" add-on to anything. I just think the people who have taken our member numbers up to nearly 2000 should get more than "Well who the hell cares".

A census would be interesting. I'd like to have a better idea of who we are and why we're here. Just to know.

Connie, I guess whenever this discussion comes up, it's really weird. How do you take someone's voice into account if they NEVER voice their thoughts either by posting or voting?

This is it. If someone is posting somewhere on here, they aren't a lurker

Okay, but they're not a member of the "core" group, either. And there have been comments explicitly saying that their feelings should not matter as much.

I agree with Cindy regarding the tension-building. I'm not a "core" member here. I'm not a lurker, although there are periods of time when I do just lurk, but that's true of all of my boards, not just this one. I'd like a Network Drama tv thread, but my life's not going to end if there isn't one. At this point, I'm not even sure if there should be one, so I'm not saying this out of feeling like I have some sort of stake in the result of that vote.

I also don't care who thinks my feelings on this or anything else are worthy enough of being considered. I don't mean that as hostily as it sounds, because I have a great amount of respect for the majority of people who post here, but it's just the way I'm built. I feel how I feel, I say what I say - people can take it into consideration or not. I don't need validation of my own opinions. However, were I a different type of person or an exclusive lurker for whatever reason, or a person who maybe tried to post once or twice in Natter and was ignored and now fears rejection or whatnot, I would be highly offended by some of the posts being made. Which may not matter to anyone, but there it is, all the same.

Right now I mostly feel like donating some money to the board and invading Natter with whitefonted tv talk and demand that people respond to me since it seems so all-important for some people to keep it there, even people who admit to never discussing it there.

I don't think having a poll is a bad way of getting information, but I highly doubt its usefulness in resolving anything unless a handful of the right people decide that it means there will no longer be voting for new threads and somehow institute that as policy.

Again, I'm not looking to argue or attack anyone specifically, but this whole convo is sort of leaving me feeling very uneasy. I think I need a break from it, in all honesty.

I just think the people who have taken our member numbers up to nearly 2000 should get more than "Well who the hell cares".

Because they registered? Connie, did you take a look at that Clay Shirky article I posted? I had you in mind in terms of people who protest whenever the suggestion is made that this is not a pure democracy.

Denise, I think the main point being made by me and others is that only people who make their views known (whether through discussion or voting or whatever) deserve to have their views taken into account. We can't guess what the rest of the world thinks. At least, I can't. Hell, I can barely figure out what my friends think.

Denise, I think the main point being made by me and others is that only people who make their views known (whether through discussion or voting or whatever) deserve to have their views taken into account. We can't guess what the rest of the world thinks. At least, I can't. Hell, I can barely figure out what my friends think.

I understand your point of view, Jesse. I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm also not going to go back through the thread and single out specific people for specific comments because I'm not looking to put specific people on the defensive and make things worse. But there are people expressing a view that is different from the view that you're expressing in regards to which opinons matter. Those are the views I'm having difficulty with.

I feel like we are getting very close to a post that I think resulted in at least one person leaving the board and a ton of voting measures going forth, but this time the term being used is "core".

IF you are here and participating then I THINK you can take it for granted you would be considered CORE. The problem is there CAN NEVER be a definition of "CORE" that will please everyone.

I do not fear a great lurker overthrow of how things work here, seriously why would they do that? and how would a great minority viewpoint come into play IF WE ALL VOTE!

It bugs if we all think that what we want is the one true way AND the majority opinion, but that we will be thwarted by some loud minority that keep posting. I include myself in that. It is a pretty crazy stance all told.