I concur with Raq that Wall-E as a movie didn't work. Any movie where I am thinking, "How do they PEE?" is not working as a movie.

I LOVE the first 40 minutes, though (until they get to Axiom). And some of the animation was so good I got shivers.

I still have not seen WALL-E. Every time I check the video store, all copies are checked out. My sister and BiL hated it, I was surprised to find.

So, since I can't really comment on WALL-E, I'll comment on 2001 instead.

But there was no real antagonist - Auto was following his directive and wasn't sentient evil, regardless of whether he looked like HAL or not.

I'm not sure why that's a problem. And if Auto isn't "evil", than neither was HAL, who was also following his directive, even if it was malfunctioning.

I recently had this discussion with my BiL, who watched 2001 late one night, having been woken by one of his toddlers. He wrote a whole blog post about the Messages of 2001, and what made HAL one of the most chilling villains of all time.

I had to completely rebut him. HAL isn't the villain of 2001. He's arguably the hero. There aren't really any villains in 2001, except for human paranoia and short-sightedness. HAL was just trying to carry out his secret mission orders to the best of his ability, without violating any of the rest of his programming. He failed miserably.

HAL was just trying to carry out his secret mission orders to the best of his ability.

Is that shown in the movie, or are you relying on ACC's retcon in 2010?

HAL was just trying to carry out his secret mission orders to the best of his ability, without violating any of the rest of his programming. He failed miserably.

And was vindicated, for what it's worth, in 2010.

HAL in 2010 was tragically touching. I always felt Dave came back for him because HAL was a victim of callous manipulation.

I loved 2010, but then I never connected completely with 2001. I need a more linear story.

HAL was just trying to carry out his secret mission orders to the best of his ability.

Is that shown in the movie, or are you relying on ACC's retcon in 2010?

Um, yes. It's never directly stated in the film, but you can arguably piece it together from what we are shown - the secret message from Heywood Floyd, combined with Floyd's secretive nature in dealing with the Russians.

But yes, I generally (and unscientifically) arrived at this interpretation based in part on ACC's explanation of HAL's behavior from 2010. It never occurred to me to think of this as a retcon, but I can accept that this is because it's the retcon I subscribe to.

But you know what REALLY bugged me about it? I sat thru the whole thing, dodging the huge anvils of MESSAGE (the starliner should have been called Anvil), even to the end of the credits where Wall-E replaces Lumo's bulb with a new energy-saver bulb. And then I looked at all the Wall-E tie-in merchandising, esp. that bit of landfill-to-be that Mal got for Xmas, a small Wall-E that responds to sound and dances. And the hypocrisy of Disney/Pixar just pissed me off. They are Buy-n-Large, by and large.

Thisis a statement of beauty...and don't get me started on my Beauty and the Beast rant...And I would like to state for the record that I'm going to beat the rush and proactively agree with whatever Raq says about movies.

Phew. That will save a lot of 'dittos.'

don't get me started on my Beauty and the Beast rant...

You mean how Belle sings in her opening song (her mission statement, if you will) that she wants adventure and the wide world, and she ends up playing house with dogboy (granted that he had a KILLER library)?

Way to model independent women, Disney.

I always thought that once he was free and they danced, the would have adventure and the wide world together. But B & B is my favorite fairy tale.

It never occurred to me to think of this as a retcon, but I can accept that this is because it's the retcon I subscribe to.

This. It was in the plot synopsis my dad gave me while we were watching (me being about eleven and desperately needing footnotes in order to follow the damn thing), so it never occured to me that it wasn't part of the movie all along. I will grant that it's there in an obscure subtexty way and could easily qualify as a retcon.