I knew he was going to be in it, but i totally didn't recognize him until he was arguing with Gordon about...something.

I agree with Plei about Dent. First, I just have a problem with Eckhart even coming into the movie -- every time I see an interview with him, he seems exceptionally stupid. I find it hard to believe he makes it out of the house in the morning. So every role is compromised by that. Second, even if he didn't seem too dumb to be Dent, there is something sleazy about AE. I never bought the white knight angle, just assumed he was somehow compromised. He looks terrific, though -- that dimple does half the work. I have tried to mentally recast the role. Matt Damon, maybe?

Matt Damon, maybe?

He'd be a better Dent, but not a very good Two-Face.

Ironically, I think that a younger Jeff Bridges would have been perfect.

I think he'd have made an excellent Dent and Two-Face, but I'm not sure he's pretty enough for Dent. I am sure, however, that he has the chops to convince me of it. Damon's sold me on some serious crap over the years. I have reluctantly gained an appreciation.

So Holtz played Stephens? Man, physically, he was SO my mental Harvey Bullock in this.

Steph, I am glad I was spoiled enough to not worry that she'd be Renee, because she was So Shifty. And had I been worrying that she was Renee, I'd have been more cranky about the character abuse than the timing.

It was weird that Ramirez was so shifty in the movie because in Gotham Knight, she was much more Montoya-esque, believing in Batman and all, in contrast to her partner.

I recognized 'Holtz' immeidately, but less for his looks, what with the no beard and few pounds more but for his voice. I've listened to audiobooks where he used his natural speaking voice which is VERY different from Holtz.

I remember an Angel commentary track where they were making fun of him for having a high pitched, New Yawker voice.

Second, even if he didn't seem too dumb to be Dent, there is something sleazy about AE. I never bought the white knight angle, just assumed he was somehow compromised.

(I can re-white-font if need be, but I didn't think it was a spoiler that Harvey Dent was supposed to be the "white knight" contrast to Batman.)

Anyway, I didn't think that Harvey Dent was supposed to be pure of intent; I thought that he was supposed to -- at the very least -- have a history of being, well, two-faced. (The scene in the hospital, when he tells Gordon to say the nickname that he [Dent] had in IAD was REALLY in the wrong place -- too late -- in the movie, IMO. My opinion is that it needed to be mentioned early on and then left alone until the reveal of his scarred creepiness.)

But anyway, the fact that Harvey even *had* the Two-Face nickname back in the day suggests that he's never been Mr. Pureheart White Knight. It's just that he was able to do under the auspices of the law what Batman was doing vigilante-style. Harvey was really only a white knight in contrast with Batman.

I completely agree with your whitefont point Tep. That moment came so late that is dropped to the floor like lead.

I figured it was just me, given I knew it was coming. But yeah, could not have helped the uninitiated to understand the stark personality shift, or even the iconography of the makeup and nickname.

I was a little surprised to see Bruce falling in love with Harvey so quickly over dinner. I wonder if that scene was longer when originally shot.

My opinion is that it needed to be mentioned early on and then left alone until the reveal

I don't think that the Two-Face nickname itself provided any new information; it was just there as a setup. We knew that he wasn't very well liked by the other officers because, well, no one likes when Internal Affairs comes in and indicts your friends. And the thing is, he was RIGHT. There WERE a bunch of corrupt cops on the force, so I don't think he's not supposed to be Mr. Pureheart White Knight, entirely. I think we were pretty much supposed to see him as a good guy.