Okay.

I have now seen The Dark Knight. And I must say...AWESOME!

Many people bring up some very good points. I will whitefont a lot here.

Re: Joker (begin whitefont) Ledger made some *brilliant* choices. His choice to be so low-key (Loki? Mwahahahaha!) made the rare (like, three) moments in the film when he went full on (please to forgive pun) bat-shit maniacal with the laugh ULTRA SPOOKY. I wasn't the world's biggest Ledger fan before this movie (having never seen Brokeback Mountain), but now...now I truly mourn his passing as it means no more of that iteration of the Joker. I completely disagree with the above linked review regarding Ledger v. Nicholson. I never really liked the Nicholson Joker and seeing what *could* be done with the character I am now sated as far as filmic visions of the Clown Prince of Crime go. THAT was the Joker I knew could be put on the silver screen; scary on such a deep, primal level that you question your definitions of safe and unsafe.

I can see where Mr. White could get Nicholson's Joker was "multi-leveled" (though "sophisticated" in that context still eludes me); Nicholson's Joker was all about "I got hurt and that made me nutso". And that's a valid path to explore; it elicits audience sympathy for the character which is an easy path to horror when he does atrocious things. Unfortunately, it was Jack "I left subtle behind at the Cuckoo's Nest" Nicholson playing him, so the depth of that was never fully plumbed.

Ledger's Joker, in contrast, was the deepest of all human fears. He was the walking, talking embodiment of "sometimes really bad things happen to people for no discernible reason", which reaches way deep into our primal fears of the dark, the unknown and the capricious whims of Chance. He simply appeared and picked on...you, the common man (or woman) because he felt like it. He picked on Batman because Batman was there and visible...as he picked on Dent and Gordon. "The raised nail must be hammered down...in the most frightening way possible." Dent, Gordon and Batman were the most visible targets...only Batman was remotely physically equipped to deal with him.

THAT is what the Joker is...lightning striking you dead out of the blue, the tornado choosing YOUR HOUSE for no reason, an eagle dropping a turtle on your head as you meander your way to the agora...

Nicholson's Joker was "This could be you", which is pretty horrific and speaks to our deepest insecurities. Ledger's Joker was "This could be anything" and speaks to our deepest fears of the dark and the things we cannot control.

Eckhart was brilliant as Dent. Even before he became Two-Face, he was excellent. Once he became Two-Face...well, that deserves a movie of its own. I like Aims' thinking, which is: They never said Dent was *dead*. They said "the public cannot know what he did". It's entirely possible that they faked his funeral and Two-Face is languishing in some deep, dark, forgotten cell in Arkham. I hope so...he's the next logical villain.

The Dark Knigt is, in my opinion, the Empire Strikes Back of the new Batman franchise. They ended it in a way that begs for a third...not with obvious cliff-hangers, but with Batman on the run, the city in confusion...and Batman himself in confusion as to the worthiness of his path, his place as a hero and his role in Gotham. Right now he is the "Dark Knight", the violence of the night that must be hunted and chased and brought to light or killed that society may breathe easier. But we all know that that is not his finality; he must grow further to fill out his role as Gotham's protector, not as a symbol of violent retribution, not the harsh vengeance that lies beyond the circle of the campfire, but as the symbol of the responsibility of all citizens to do right...do right by themselves and do right by each other. He isn't there yet, with this movie, but I hope that a future installment will get him there.

And then his never-ending battle can truly begin.

I just saw The Dark Knight. That movie is fucking hardcore. Holy fucking shit.

Like Debet, I totally thought they'd just killed Jim Gordon and was so fucking confused and wondering how they would pull off future movies. And I remembered scenes from the trailer with him and the Joker that hadn't happened yet, but I thought maybe they'd been cut or something! Like Steph, I totally thought Dent would kill Jim Gordon's son. After all the death and carnage of the movie before (including blowing up Rachel), I, too, believed this to be the do-that franchise. Hell, I expected either one of the boats or both to blow up. I would not have been surprised. That is how fucking hardcore this movie was.

Incidentally, our audience actually cheered when the prisoner threw the detonator away. And then they cheered again when the asshole decided not to press the button. Apparently, our theatre likes positive resolutions to moral dilemmas. Also: we like when the BatPod runs up walls and flips around holy shit that was awesome. Oh, and flipping trucks. These are things we like.

Heath Ledger as the Joker was fucking terrifying, and Miracleman has done an excellent job of explaining why. Nolan helped too, the way he shot and edited his scenes.

I am confused about one plot point: the Joker lied about who was where, right? Because Batman goes to save Rachel and ends up with Dent, and Gordon shouts the address that the Joker gave for Dent and ends up with Rachel. It's an awesome move and totally the Joker's style, but I was confused because it never came up later on. I mean, for God's sake, tell Dent that it wasn't supposed to go down that way!

I thought Aaron Eckhart was awesome as well (and I agree with Steph on her thoughts on Harvey), but I was a little disappointed that Two-Face wasn't as split-personality as I'd expected, especially given that article on the way Nolan filmed two performances. I didn't really get that impression from what I saw; it seemed like he was just growly old Two-Face throughout.

Maggie Gyllenhaal is pretty.

Another quibble: why the fuck would you name two characters Ramirez? That was confusing.

I didn't recognize Keith Szarabajka without his beard. It finally hit me in his scene in the cell with the Joker.

In conclusion, I am really really glad I re-read The Killing Joke yesterday. It made me appreciate the movie a whole lot more.

Re: P-C's disappointment with Dent: I saw it as all Two-Face from the moment halfway through his scene in the hospital with Gordon to his "death". There was a flicker, a moment...maybe I just imagined it, but for me it was there...where Harvey gave way to Two-Face...and, brilliantly, it was right after Gordon begrudgingly gave up his IA "nickname." It was as though Harvey, right then, decided to let go and give "Two-Face" his free rein, and when he turned back to Gordon...Harvey wasn't home anymore. AND, I think to Nolan's credit, Harvey wasn't there the rest of the movie. There was no cop-out "Batman Forever" moment where they were both present...that issue is to be resolved in the future or never. Brilliant.

MM, I agree with you on it being all Two-Face from that moment with no Harvey, but unlike you, I wanted Harvey to be present too. I find that aspect of his character interesting, that his good side and bad side are warring with each other. I want No Man's Land Two-Face, putting himself on trial.

As a side note, Two-Face was pretty fucking scary too, which I liked. Joker and Two-Face made Scarecrow and Ra's al-Ghul look like wannabe villains.

Agreed on Steph's final whitefont. Hee! Although it might have undercut the drama a tad if Rachel goes boom and the audience bursts into applause.

Random thoughts:

The sonar fight near the end was the Batmobile chase of this movie. By which I mean it was 5 times as long as it needed to be. Ugh. Even if it did feature a lot of dog-punching.

I keep thinking I really wanted more Batfans. I would have liked a little of them actually being effective, too. They really should have been involved in Joker's "Kill this guy or I blow up a hospital" thing. Ideally, on both sides. Because that was awesome.

Controversy! I don't mind Bale's Batman voice.

But yeah, a little too much talky-meat. Seriously, Gordon, you don't need to say the exact same thing twice in the final speech. I felt bad for Oldman at that point.

Strega, I agree on the sonar fight. That was the first time during the movie I actually thought to myself, "Well, this has gone on a bit too long."

About Harvey: Joe, you said that Aims said that we don't know he's dead -- that was my FIRST comment after the movie. I asked The Boy, "Are we meant to assume Dent is dead? No one SAID he was." I think they left it that way on purpose. And I think, therefore, that he'll be back.

Incidentally, I also dislike Bale's growly Batman voice.

House Next Door didn't like TDK so much:

[link]

I understand the critiques, but I don't agree with them.

P-C, on one of your questions, I thought the Joker didn't say who was at which address, but it was going on 2 in the morning at that point, so I might have missed it.

I'm with Franken. Further

The issue was that Batman had to choose which one to save. That's why he sent Gordon one way and he went the other.