NPR Monkey See did not like Mad Men at all. I enjoyed reading her post. Not sure if I totally agree, but I think her points are worth discussion.

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I think she has higher moral standards for these characters - especially Don and Roger - than they have earned.

I basically agree with everything she says, and was just on my way here to post that same link!

I think her points about Roger are credible. They really needed more in the narrative to explain why he would allow it to happen. It's not completely against his character, because in some ways Roger thinks everybody's a whore. But he would've talked to Joan directly about it, I think.

And there are ways they could've set up the narrative where Pete was more duplicitous or Roger and Joan were more estranged to create a space where it might happen.

However, people keep harping on the partnership like it's just more money, but it's not. Joan will have a say in how the firm is run. She was disabused of the notion that her work is so valued that they respect her and will reward her. I think she made a fairly bitter choice of, "Fuck them. If that's what they think of me then I'm going to take power and control my fate and situation."

It's not just the money; it's the control within the firm.

I agree. I just decided I'd been mischaracterizing Roger instead of the authorship. I could see how Roger would see this as on a continuum with what he's expected of the other women in his life, that they would be willing to be used for the advancement of his business goals. And I could also see Roger as not wanting to speak up too vehemently in public, because as far as he knows, no one else knows about the extent of his relationship with Joan. But I agree that Roger would have talked to Joan, not taken for granted what Pete, of all people, was saying to him about her.

It's not just the money; it's the control within the firm.

True. Plus it is not like she has never used sex to advance her career before. Again, even marrying Dr. Rapey was in part an economic decision. (It is more than that, because catching a 'catch' was what women were supposed to do - so it also fits into "meet social expectations". )Joan is desperate. Not in the 'end up on the street' sense, but in the never going to get the social status she believes she deserves. And the men seeing her as a someone they are willing to sell shows her she has not even got as far she thought she had. On the contra side this gives her not only money, but power and status - a guarantee she won't face that kind of choice again. (whether it really is such a guarantee, it is seen by her as such.) So a combination of a long running desperation with a chance to get farther than she though she would to achieve a goal she had given up on.

I'll agree that the way the men came to the conclusion to ask Joan was not earned. But it was a shortcut. I totally believe any of them were willing to sell Joan except Rodger and Don and that Rodger would have been too cowardly to get in the way. Also, both Rodger and Don are exceptions only for Joan. (Don would have been the saem if the guy had wanted Peggy.) But if the creep had wanted Dawn, I doubt Don would have thought twice. he fired Sal for not sleeping with a client.

But if the creep had wanted Dawn, I doubt Don would have thought twice. he fired Sal for not sleeping with a client.

Not only that, but way back when they were having difficulty with the potato chips and the mouthy drunken comedian, the first sex he had with Bobbie, the comic's wife, was pretty damn coerced; he wasn't entirely unwilling, but he didn't pursue her and didn't return her overtures until after she'd spelled out a brutally clear quid pro quo: fuck me and my husband makes a nice sincere apology, don't fuck me and it all blows up in the firm's face and you lose the account, because he does nothing unless I tell him to. Your choice.

He not only respects Joan more than he did Sal or more than he would Dawn, he respects her a lot more than he respects himself.

(eta: of course, if Don ever sat down and wrote up a list of everyone he genuinely respects, he'd pretty much run through the entire rest of the planet before he got to "myself." His abusive stepmother might be the very last person on that list, but quite possibly not.)

I think part of the equation for Joan was simply realizing/believing that the partners already thought of her as a whore, or sexual asset. Simply by putting the proposal in front of her instead of rejecting it out of hand precisely marked their opinion of her. Consequently, sleeping with the guy doesn't lose her any status, but it does gain her a partnership. Since respect for her work meant exactly nothing to them, she decided to take the real power that she could grab.

She'll have a say in hiring decisions and a lot of other things in the firm now. 5% isn't a huge interest, but because of her expertise in running the firm, they will defer to her on a number of fronts. Basically if a situation like she had with Jane long ago came up again, she could just fire Jane. She won't be subject to their override.

I haven't watched the latest The Killing yet (it sounds like it's going to make me roll my eyes very hard) but I have given a fair amount of thought to what I like about and what I don't. I don't care that the case wasn't solved at the end of the first season. I do care that the plot and the characterizations seems to formulated in order to give us a series of sensational revelations rather than real people going through a murder investigation. It's disappointing, because there are occasional flashes (more than that in the early episodes, I think) of really raw and honest storytelling, and that is what got me watching the show in the first place.

So I am sometimes enjoying this season, but when I am not it does seem like they are betraying the deal that I thought I had with the show.

Yeah, one of the things that Joan is, perhaps surprisingly, is pragmatic. Her use of her sexuality early in the show came from the same basic spot. She essentially tells Peggy, use what you've got, and that's something she believes.

I could see Joan looking at her options (if she had refused, and they lost the account, they would have resented her for it, whether or not it was deserved) and making a calculated choice. Since Pete had already violated her first objection (I don't want anyone knowing I was asked.) he put her in a position of having to deal with the request one way or the other, publicly.

So yeah, if she's looking at having lost respect/the illusion of respect already, the only potential gain is to get the partnership. And Lane was acting out of self-interest there, but he also gave Joan a gift, because I seriously doubt she would have asked for the partnership on her own initiative. I dislike that it went down that way, because it was yet another example of her lacking control/the illusion of control. However, I see it as in character for Joan to look at everything before her and make the choice she thought was most sustainable for her going forward.