I know!

I was appalled.

(Yes, I also need the closure. . . but guess what? I have this FEAR that we won't get it.)

Haven't been watching this year, but based on what the creator said last year as she pissed everyone off, I wouldn't hold my breath.

I'm fairly certain we'll get proper closure this season. I was never expecting the case to be solved at the end of last season, so I was not among the pissed off.

with sj. I knew from the pacing that the murder mystery was not going to be solved by the end of last season.

It is supposed to be solved by the end of THIS season though.

NPR Monkey See did not like Mad Men at all. I enjoyed reading her post. Not sure if I totally agree, but I think her points are worth discussion.

[link]

I think she has higher moral standards for these characters - especially Don and Roger - than they have earned.

I basically agree with everything she says, and was just on my way here to post that same link!

I think her points about Roger are credible. They really needed more in the narrative to explain why he would allow it to happen. It's not completely against his character, because in some ways Roger thinks everybody's a whore. But he would've talked to Joan directly about it, I think.

And there are ways they could've set up the narrative where Pete was more duplicitous or Roger and Joan were more estranged to create a space where it might happen.

However, people keep harping on the partnership like it's just more money, but it's not. Joan will have a say in how the firm is run. She was disabused of the notion that her work is so valued that they respect her and will reward her. I think she made a fairly bitter choice of, "Fuck them. If that's what they think of me then I'm going to take power and control my fate and situation."

It's not just the money; it's the control within the firm.

I agree. I just decided I'd been mischaracterizing Roger instead of the authorship. I could see how Roger would see this as on a continuum with what he's expected of the other women in his life, that they would be willing to be used for the advancement of his business goals. And I could also see Roger as not wanting to speak up too vehemently in public, because as far as he knows, no one else knows about the extent of his relationship with Joan. But I agree that Roger would have talked to Joan, not taken for granted what Pete, of all people, was saying to him about her.

It's not just the money; it's the control within the firm.

True. Plus it is not like she has never used sex to advance her career before. Again, even marrying Dr. Rapey was in part an economic decision. (It is more than that, because catching a 'catch' was what women were supposed to do - so it also fits into "meet social expectations". )Joan is desperate. Not in the 'end up on the street' sense, but in the never going to get the social status she believes she deserves. And the men seeing her as a someone they are willing to sell shows her she has not even got as far she thought she had. On the contra side this gives her not only money, but power and status - a guarantee she won't face that kind of choice again. (whether it really is such a guarantee, it is seen by her as such.) So a combination of a long running desperation with a chance to get farther than she though she would to achieve a goal she had given up on.

I'll agree that the way the men came to the conclusion to ask Joan was not earned. But it was a shortcut. I totally believe any of them were willing to sell Joan except Rodger and Don and that Rodger would have been too cowardly to get in the way. Also, both Rodger and Don are exceptions only for Joan. (Don would have been the saem if the guy had wanted Peggy.) But if the creep had wanted Dawn, I doubt Don would have thought twice. he fired Sal for not sleeping with a client.