My handwave on the state-of-the-body thing. It's the state the body was in when it died. Thus, if it took any time at all after the gsw for the guy to die, the wound stays. But Chuck was killed in more or less perfect condition. On the dog, not sure when he would have died. This also jives with the fruit.

OK, I finally caught up with last week's TORCHWOOD and while it wasn't the most stunning hour of telelvision (and did very much look like total crap visually), I thought it was an interesting glimpse into Ianto's (sp?) character, since up to now he just seemed Mr. Hyper-Efficient servant guy. Am I missing some horrific subtexty something on why this was an episode that would drive people from the show? I know Jack was seriously harsh, but not much more so than some of the stuff that the Doctor has done recently.

Am I missing some horrific subtexty something on why this was an episode that would drive people from the show? I know Jack was seriously harsh, but not much more so than some of the stuff that the Doctor has done recently.

I think it was another nail in the "these people have no sense or morals" coffin. Which it's hard to disagree with. Also, Lisa is really sexualized in some unpleasant ways.

I think the real tragedy of the thing is that it's only when Ianto finds a concrete way to help Lisa that everything goes to hell. The first thing the doctor does (after he gropes her) is figure out how to take her off the respirator. That frees Lisa to go on a rampage.

Do we need to whitefont if something's aired on BBCA? Did we ever decide? Or has everyone who's interested in Torchwood found a way to watch it at this point?

To me, BBCA is a US airing (in a way that previous arrangements certainly weren't). Blackfont away!

I think it was decided to blackfont the BBCAmerica airing, as that's the official US release of the series.

I think it was another nail in the "these people have no sense or morals" coffin.

See, that doesn't bother me much (well the lack-of-morals part I doesn't bother me, not the lack-of-sense, but I could identify with Ianto, and I don't think he understood the magnitude of the danger the Cybermen represented to the person being changed).

Also, Lisa is really sexualized in some unpleasant ways.

This I can see however. There does seem to be a touch of "let's be naughty because we can", I will admit. In an odd way, it reminds me of when Hammer movies started to really sex things up in the 70s, and the results were mostly embarassing, repressed and adolescent.

Am I missing some horrific subtexty something on why this was an episode that would drive people from the show? I know Jack was seriously harsh, but not much more so than some of the stuff that the Doctor has done recently.

I think it was another nail in the "these people have no sense or morals" coffin. Which it's hard to disagree with.

Yeah, for me, Frank, it was that shot of the entire team pumping bullets into Lisa as if it were cool and not extremely disturbing. These are our protagonists?

Oh, really? To me, that was "Shoot her, shoot her now, shoot her dead very dead so she doesn't kill us all."

There was that too, but I found the image really off, especially because, if I recall, she didn't seem superduperdangerous at that point. And she was a not-threatening-looking woman. And they really didn't need a thousand bullets to do that job.

But, they're experience was that Cybermen were pretty darn near invincible - would you really second guess that?