Have you seen the rest of it yet, Juliebird?

no, I gave up trying to ahem after not being impressed with the first few eps.

I do hope that Jack's experience back on DW truly does affect season 2 of TW, but there's just so much more wrong with it than just a broody Cpt. Jack Harkness. The entire premise that he can't die, and we learn on DW that he's been waiting for hundreds of years and been killed a dozen times over... that sucks.

So I get why Jack now is the way he is, but I don't get why RTD made him that way, why he deliberately destroyed what we loved about Jack.

I'm not sure I have watched "Cyberwoman" since the first time I saw it ahemed, since it's by far my "Bad Eggs" episode of the series! What I really noticed this time through, on the bigger, nicer screen on the TV is how lousy the video was, looking cheap as though done on my brother's camera. I suppose they were trying to suggest the low-light condition of the shut-down base, but it SO didn't work.

Gwen has such a deer in the headlights look, far too often. But then cyborg Vs pterodactyl fights aren't exactly in the police academy curriculum. "What's all this, then?" just doesn't do it.

we did? i don't recall seeing her. Freema was playing a different character and that's when RTD fell in looooooooooove with her, but i don't remember seeing Tosh.

We didn't. Tosh appears earlier on "Doctor Who," way back in "Aliens of London" with the Ninth Doctor.

cyborg Vs pterodactyl fights.

Which is really the only thing to recommend this episode. Not one of my favorites. Really, the series doesn't start taking off until the next episode or so (I'll admit, other people hate the episode "Countrycide," but ... well ... I beg to disagree.)

So I get why Jack now is the way he is, but I don't get why RTD made him that way, why he deliberately destroyed what we loved about Jack.

RTD didn't destroy anything. Those aspects that you love about Jack are still there, as proven by his appearances in Season Three of Dr. Who. But yeah, he's in a darker place in "Torchwood," and I think John Barrowman hits it out of the park more often than he misses with it showing two sides of the same character.

I do hope for a bit more synthesis next season on "Torchwood," and that seems pretty set up for this by is character arc and casting-spoilery bits.

Yeah, when we meet Cpt Jack, he's a bitter ex-time soldier who lost several years of his life, memory-wise, and is running a scam -- I think he's overjoyed to run into a crew of similar lost souls so we see him for the rest of that series with something to believe in again... which he is then betrayed and abandoned, with as little explanation. But, it seems this time, at least, he still hopes with a bitter edge that he might find them again and get an explanation... and he starts making his own crew of fellow lost souls in the meantime.

I think I will discuss more on Captain Jack after the Dr Who ep next week. I worry I might accidentally spoil the big finale.

I liked Cyberwoman a lot more in the context of the whole series.

DCJ, thank you. I'm assuming that Stuff Happens, what with the season finale, and all.

Incidentally, Melina over on LJ has been keeping track of what gets cut out of Torchwood for time. The edits have really been well done, I think, and fairly minor, but you lost a big speech of Jack's this week.

[link]

Occasionally, I think about giving Torchwood another shot, but I had such a violently negative reaction to this episode (and I did give it a couple of more episodes after that, but "Countrycide" kinda put the nails in the coffin), I doubt I'd have a balanced response upon rewatch, even at this stage.

And now, I'll have to watch season 2 because (season 2 TW casting spoiler) Martha's going to be on the show and I adore Martha and not a little resentful about the fact. But if they put in the bits about the Master sending them on a wild goose chase to the Himalayas in the season opener, that might mollify me a bit.

My utter adoration of Ianto certainly helps.