Boxed Set, Vol. IV: It's always suicide-mission this, save-the-planet that.
A topic for the discussion of Farscape, Smallville, and Due South. Beware possible invasions of Stargate, Highlander, or pretty much any other "genre" (read: sci fi or fantasy) show that captures our fancy. Expect Adult Content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.
Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.
Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.
This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.
he's so brittle and tough outside, but hit it right and it fractures, and then it's all marshmallow inside.
Yes. I have to wonder if the opposite holds true for Sam. He's very much in Captain Empathy mode much of the time, but I'm now wanting to go back and look more closely at how he reacts under certain kinds of pressure.
It's one of my most insistent plot bunnies, Dean learning how to let someone take care of him, learning how to let some of that burden fall on someone else's shoulders.
Oh, yes. I think the conversation between him and Sam at the end of AHBL2 brings that idea into very sharp focus.
Hit Sam the right way, I think you find a Core of Steel.
Other than just those abs.
I would agree, but I also think part of that is Sam being a damn good mimic. Sam wants and needs to fit in much more than Dean does, so he's made it part of himself, but on some level he's just as much of an outsider as Dean is.
Yep. Which is why I think of it as a toolset. It's totally a learned skill for the boy, not in the way most people learn it, but in a creepy kind of study them like insects way. I love Sam.
Also, Dean may be the best big brother in the world, but in an incredibly burdensome way. I think Sam was running away from Dean just as much as he was from John.
As you probably know, I feel the same way.
Hit Sam the right way, I think you find a Core of Steel.
I can't believe I am quoting Stephen King here, but in the Stand, one of the characters (the one hit wonder rock star) is described along the lines of
go one or two layers down, and it's like biting on tinfoil unexpectedly.
That's always seemed to fit Sam to me.
It's totally a learned skill for the boy, not in the way most people learn it, but in a creepy kind of study them like insects way. I love Sam.
Love this, and love Sam.
As you probably know, I feel the same way.
I do know. I'm pretty sure this is SPN discussion #37 v4
Hit Sam the right way, I think you find a Core of Steel.
Oh, yeah. Sam's inherently strong in a way that he doesn't even recognize, due in no small part to the parenting of both John and Dean. Sam will destroy the world if he thinks it's the right thing to do--and he can. Sam won't break, although he (and we) may wish he did; instead he digs in, gets angry, pushes back. But he won't break. That's why he is, weirdly, so much more dangerous than Dean.
Sam will destroy the world if he thinks it's the right thing to do--and he can.
I would like to see him move sideboards with his mind more often. Because, I mean, what is cooler than a pair of demon-hunters in a classic car tooling around the country? A pair of
spoonbending
demon-hunters. (Dean can learn to juggle as his special power, or something.)
Dean has tremendous empathy for small children and outsiders. He's not as good with normal humans, with their various layers of socialization and strange customs.
Yes, although in this particular episode, I think Dean empathized not just because Ronald was an outsider, but because Dean recognized Ronald was (a not pretty version of) Dean. He was a hunter -- just one who wasn't raised by one, and he didn't know what he was hunting, and he didn't know how to hunt. But he got everything right except the kind of creature that was committing the robberies and murders. He even pinpointed its lair. He was willing to go outside the law to stop it, when the law refused to see, and he was extraordinarily frustrated by the law, just as Dean is ('frigging cops').
Sam's better at the latter. He's got the toolset for normal human interaction, and has paid attention to the things Dean's never bothered with in that respect.
I find Sam's characterization a trifle inconsistent in spots. I'm not sure what it is, because he was certainly identified with the outsider, when the outsider was like him (the other chosen kid -- the one who was killing off his family -- I disremember the episode, but the kid's dad and uncle had been abusive).
I think Sam was running away from Dean just as much as he was from John.
I agree, even though I kind of want to smack him for it.
I agree with both of these things, even though I kind of get it. I think Sam was probably mostly running away from John-as-father, and the John-Dean relationship, more than actually from his brother Dean (if that makes any sense). Sam couldn't have that with his father, and he was mad that Dean did, both for good reasons (like wondering why Dean *never* ever questioned John) and bad (feeling left out, so acting in an alienating way to the people who were ready to die to keep him alive).
Sam won't break, although he (and we) may wish he did; instead he digs in, gets angry, pushes back. But he won't break. That's why he is, weirdly, so much more dangerous than Dean.
I never thought of it that way. And it rings true in a way that's a gut punch, because the demon wanted *him* after all.
I find Sam's characterization a trifle inconsistent in spots. I'm not sure what it is, because he was certainly identified with the outsider, when the outsider was like him (the other chosen kid -- the one who was killing off his family -- I disremember the episode, but the kid's dad and uncle had been abusive).
Nightmare. Max Miller. Man, Sam's realization about their connection gave me chills when I first saw it.
Yes, although in this particular episode, I think Dean empathized not just because Ronald was an outsider, but because Dean recognized Ronald was (a not pretty version of) Dean.
I think his affinity for Andy in Simon Said is for much the same reasons, and I think he empathizes with the outsider because he sees himself in them. (Andy, who has no real ambition but just to be, and despite limitless potential via his special status, is content to just kind of groove out in a cheesy van.)
Sam will destroy the world if he thinks it's the right thing to do--and he can. Sam won't break, although he (and we) may wish he did; instead he digs in, gets angry, pushes back. But he won't break. That's why he is, weirdly, so much more dangerous than Dean.
Word.
Sam will destroy the world if he thinks it's the right thing to do--and he can. Sam won't break, although he (and we) may wish he did; instead he digs in, gets angry, pushes back.
I wonder if this was why he was so freaked out about the demon's plans. Yes, part of it was certainly the fact that a demon was messing around with his life, but I wonder if part of it was that he knew what he might be capable of doing under the right circumstances.
OK, serious question here. Do the SPNers have a reason why they do NOT want a seprate thread for their show? Because I'm just about ready to propose one, but I hate the idea of proposing a thread for a show I don't watch (other than random episodes), but that I want to have the commentary of moved elsewhere. I have appeciated the links to skip the "re-watch and posts", but now it seems like the show can't be avoided here (or in other threads) even with that system.
The episodes I've seen I've liked but not loved, and the recent squeeing and flailing has made the signal to noise ratio in this thread a bit much for me. If I'm alone in this, that's OK - just say so. But I don't understand why a separate thread (especially with a new season coming) would be a BAD thing.
