You've never heard, "You can't trust those...fillinblanks" voiced?

Yeah, but I've never heard the blanks that often filled with a minority. Perhaps it's because of where I'm standing, but I've mostly heard it filled with groups that have more power than 'we' do, not less. You'd be surprised how untrustworthy white people are, really.

Can't generally have them as main characters, so they get sparsely characterized, and all that's left is the Related To My Race issues.

I don't think the one off characters are any less fleshed out for being minority than they are for being white. So all that's left for me is my general expectation of a day player, and Jake was incredibly unremarkable in that regard.

I think that the YED's army is an army of the dead.

That's what I'm thinking. Or perhaps an army of the next generation of soldiers, who are all five. That would rock.

I don't think the one off characters are any less fleshed out for being minority than they are for being white.

I guess what I mean is that when day players are not fleshed out, the ones that are minorities tend to have only race related, err, flesh. In general tv.

next generation of soldiers, who are all five.

Ha! We could bring in our "how many toddlers does it take to kill you" standard discussion. How many toddlers...if they're demon toddlers? (waits expectantly for a parent to chime in that they're all demon toddlers)

But yeah, I'm going with army of the dead. Although getting them to work together after they've all killed each other might be tricky.

If it is army of the dead, we're assuming just "chosen" soldiers, right, not fiery ceiling of death victims?

the ones that are minorities tend to have only race related, err, flesh

What race-related flesh does Jake have?

If it is army of the dead, we're assuming just "chosen" soldiers, right, not fiery ceiling of death victims?

Dude. Commanding your mother. Cool.

See, when Sam didn't kill Jake, I thought that was good because he was choosing to not play the YED's game. I was thinking that by not playing the game you don't fall under his thrall but if you play the game, you get the powers but you also wind up in his control. At least, that's what I was thinking. Not that there is any evidence for this on the show.

You'd be surprised how untrustworthy white people are, really.

We are a wily and devious bunch, to be sure.

if you play the game, you get the powers but you also wind up in his control.

That seems in line with what Ava told Sam.

I think we're talking in circles here, because I see...

What race-related flesh does Jake have?

Superstrong: "blacks are strong"
Stab in the back: "minorities are untrustworthy"

...As race related, so it pings me. But you don't, so it doesn't ping you. So probably we're not going to get round to the bit where we both go, "Oh, what you're saying is right." We have different pings.

Also, I think I would have less ping if it weren't paired in the same episode with...

Touch of death: "Lesbian touching is bad and wrong."
Death by hanging: "The only way out is conversion or despair."

if you play the game, you get the powers but you also wind up in his control.

Which means Andy wouldn't wind up in YED's army of the dead, right? Because he never chose the demon's side.

Yes, I'm preoccupied about Andy. And Ash. smonster's comment about unearned deaths is dead on. Or, given that unfortunate funerary choice and positioning of words, her comment is where my mind is this afternoon with regard to SPN.

I have no doubt Dean will bring Sam back from the store. I just want a side of Andy, too. Fritos!

Right - if my speculation is correct, Andy is safe.

But I have not really trusted Ash and the Road House was a perfect place for the YED to gather intelligence.

I guess I'm a very shallow viewer, I was not pinged by either the "dead lesbian" trope or the "blacks/minorities can't be trusted" trope. All I saw with Lily was that she didn't like what had happened to her and was looking for any way out that she could find. The fact that the YED found her and made her dead is irrelevant, IMO, to whether she was a lesbian or not. She didn't want to play the game, so her piece was removed from the board. She may still be part of the army (we don't know the criteria for being part of it, yet) and wield a very useful power to the YED, but she won't be the leader of them.

Jake, OTOH, pinged me solely as "soldier." Here was someone who presumably had a sense of honor and fair play, who was sworn to defend others, yet chose to go down the YED path because being alive was better than being dead. So much for coming home with your shield or on it. It pinged me more as commentary on the current political atmosphere with the war in Iraq and our continuing presence in the Middle East despite public opinion to the contrary.