See, when Sam didn't kill Jake, I thought that was good because he was choosing to not play the YED's game. I was thinking that by not playing the game you don't fall under his thrall but if you play the game, you get the powers but you also wind up in his control. At least, that's what I was thinking. Not that there is any evidence for this on the show.

You'd be surprised how untrustworthy white people are, really.

We are a wily and devious bunch, to be sure.

if you play the game, you get the powers but you also wind up in his control.

That seems in line with what Ava told Sam.

I think we're talking in circles here, because I see...

What race-related flesh does Jake have?

Superstrong: "blacks are strong"
Stab in the back: "minorities are untrustworthy"

...As race related, so it pings me. But you don't, so it doesn't ping you. So probably we're not going to get round to the bit where we both go, "Oh, what you're saying is right." We have different pings.

Also, I think I would have less ping if it weren't paired in the same episode with...

Touch of death: "Lesbian touching is bad and wrong."
Death by hanging: "The only way out is conversion or despair."

if you play the game, you get the powers but you also wind up in his control.

Which means Andy wouldn't wind up in YED's army of the dead, right? Because he never chose the demon's side.

Yes, I'm preoccupied about Andy. And Ash. smonster's comment about unearned deaths is dead on. Or, given that unfortunate funerary choice and positioning of words, her comment is where my mind is this afternoon with regard to SPN.

I have no doubt Dean will bring Sam back from the store. I just want a side of Andy, too. Fritos!

Right - if my speculation is correct, Andy is safe.

But I have not really trusted Ash and the Road House was a perfect place for the YED to gather intelligence.

I guess I'm a very shallow viewer, I was not pinged by either the "dead lesbian" trope or the "blacks/minorities can't be trusted" trope. All I saw with Lily was that she didn't like what had happened to her and was looking for any way out that she could find. The fact that the YED found her and made her dead is irrelevant, IMO, to whether she was a lesbian or not. She didn't want to play the game, so her piece was removed from the board. She may still be part of the army (we don't know the criteria for being part of it, yet) and wield a very useful power to the YED, but she won't be the leader of them.

Jake, OTOH, pinged me solely as "soldier." Here was someone who presumably had a sense of honor and fair play, who was sworn to defend others, yet chose to go down the YED path because being alive was better than being dead. So much for coming home with your shield or on it. It pinged me more as commentary on the current political atmosphere with the war in Iraq and our continuing presence in the Middle East despite public opinion to the contrary.

Wait, did the YED kill Lily directly, or did Ava? Because at the end, Sam said that they could safely leave because Ava was no longer controlling the demon.

Wait, did the YED kill Lily directly, or did Ava?

I'm guessing it was Ava, but since they're all being manipulated by the YED I'm giving ultimate attribution to him.

Superstrong: "blacks are strong"
Stab in the back: "minorities are untrustworthy"

Quick poll Boxed Set poll:

Is the blacks are strong stereotype still powerful for you (not you, Liese, since obviously it is)? Same thing with the black person as treacherous.

So probably we're not going to get round to the bit where we both go, "Oh, what you're saying is right." We have different pings.

No, I'm asking something different, really. Jake wasn't written, as far as I can tell, with any race-related flesh. It's what your experience puts on him. There's personal experience (which I'd be a fool to try and argue with) and then there's a cultural gestalt--that's the other thing I'm interested in drilling down into.

Honestly, I had no idea that there was a stereotype (or even an opinion pervasive enough) that blacks will kill you when your back is turned (I'd have thought we're gang bangers who will fuck you up to your face, if pressed to have an opinion) that the writers should be careful of once the role is cast. Conversely, please don't cast a black guy as the first person killed in a spooky scenario. Just don't. That's culture-wide in North America, as far as I can tell.

Touch of death: "Lesbian touching is bad and wrong."
Death by hanging: "The only way out is conversion or despair."

Hmm. I get the touch of death alarm, but I don't get the death by hanging (I mean, I see the point, but since she didn't kill herself rather than keep being in the town, it would never have occurred to me--however, you hang the black guy and I'm going to freak out (my issues) and look at you funny (because you might still want to tiptoe around that for a decade or so).