Jayne: That's a good idea. Good idea. Tell us where the stuff's at so I can shoot you. Mal: Point of interest? Offering to shoot us might not work so well as an incentive as you might imagine.

'Out Of Gas'


Other Media  

Discussion of Buffy and Angel comics, books, and more. Please don't get into spoilery details in the first week of release.


Michele T. - Aug 26, 2004 6:58:03 am PDT #5626 of 10000
with a gleam in my eye, and an almost airtight alibi

I do my best to answer without deciding which comics she may already have read (didn't you say you hadn't read Nightwing, P-C? Maybe I remember wrong).

If you are asking questions about the latest chapter in a self-contained story, I consider it *eminently* fair to assume that you've read the previous chapters. If you opened Jane Eyre to the middle of the book and said "Who's this Mr Rochester guy?" the only intelligent response would be to tell you to start from the beginning and find out.


§ ita § - Aug 26, 2004 7:01:33 am PDT #5627 of 10000
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Michele, then don't answer.

Let those of us it doesn't bother help out.

I obviously set my bar for intelligence a lot lower than yours. Yet, still happy with my quality of life.

My bar for self-contained seems to be higher, though.


Polter-Cow - Aug 26, 2004 8:44:27 am PDT #5628 of 10000
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

If you opened Jane Eyre to the middle of the book and said "Who's this Mr Rochester guy?" the only intelligent response would be to tell you to start from the beginning and find out.

We're not talking about Jane Eyre here. We're talking about comics, a medium in which answering a question like "Who's this Mr. Rochester guy?" would often entail going through several years and many issues of comics, some not even the same title as the one you're asking about, most not readily available to you. It's not even the same as being able to flip to the beginning of the book you're holding in your hand.

My bar for self-contained seems to be higher, though.

Yes. Reading Jane Eyre from the middle, I agree, is sloppy. It's a book, and has a clear beginning. But though War Games may be a "self-contained" story to you, it relies heavily on a working knowledge of the Batverse. The 12-Cent provided a lot of good exposition, but there's still a lot I, as someone new to the DCU, don't know. And frankly, there are people here who are more easily accessible as sources of this knowledge.

I finally got to read the LDK I missed, which did help explain the hospital scene in Nightwing. The end reveal of Penguin was of course not surprising since I'd read the issue after, and in the end, hardly important because he seems to have dropped out of the game already. But have we figured out what the hell they were talking about on the ship? Something about getting "her"? And the guy in the chair that we never see? I don't recall having seen any references to those events, unless bandage guy (who is Hush, apparently) was involved.

And ita, I checked out Kitty's face. That was a good face. It makes sense now.


Steph L. - Aug 26, 2004 8:48:49 am PDT #5629 of 10000
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

The 12-Cent provided a lot of good exposition, but there's still a lot I, as someone new to the DCU, don't know.

Dude, I don't, either. Without the encyclopedic knowledge of those more immersed in the DC-verse than I am, and their willingness to explain things to me, I'd be floundering.


JZ - Aug 26, 2004 8:54:56 am PDT #5630 of 10000
See? I gave everybody here an opportunity to tell me what a bad person I am and nobody did, because I fuckin' rule.

Review in today's NYT about a Fringe Festival show that sounds interesting:

'The Life and Times of Wonder Woman'
Puffin Room

She's superstrong, superquick, superbeautiful and supersmart with masses of jet-black hair, bright blue eyes and a body that would make a Trappist monk swear, as Wonder Woman herself tells us in this highly entertaining monologue by the English writer Terry Newman, a hit at last year's Fringe Festival in Edinburgh. In cherry red boots, and killer bustier/hot pants outfit, the British performer Tara Hendry does the vixen superheroine justice as she relates in bawdy braggadocio Wonder Woman's mighty Amazonian heritage, her Mount Olympus romps and more earthly pursuits, including bedding Superman (though Batman was better, she assures us). With her famous bracelets "that make short work of bullets" and her transformative twirl, Wonder Woman attempts to seduce members of the audience with her lusty tales and a magic lariat that makes it impossible for man or woman to resist the truth.

This multilayered, one-hour, one-woman show is an ingenious conceit, a way of talking about feminism, sexuality and society's view of women, told through the history of a cultural icon who went from comic book character in 1941 to hit TV star in the 1970's played by Lynda Carter. We learn about Wonder Woman's creator Charles Moulton, a k a William Moulton Marston. We learn that he modeled Wonder Woman on his mistress, who had masses of jet black hair, wore large sterling silver cuff bracelets and was along with himself, quietly into bondage. Part history lesson, part feminist tract, all funny, this show begins and ends with a fictitious northerner from England, Susan, who becomes captivated by the TV Wonder Woman during Saturday teatime. At the end of the show, when the audience realizes what Susan has grown up to be, they just may rue the day that they, like Susan, ever stopped believing. (CAMILLE SWEENEY)

Now I want to know more about Moulton's mistress, and what it was like for her to see her superhero self all over the place.


askye - Aug 26, 2004 9:22:41 am PDT #5631 of 10000
Thrive to spite them

I was going to say what PC and Teppy did, except I would have been busted at work. There are characters that I've read in several different Batman titles and tpbs and I STILL don't know their back story or what the deal is.

Like the ventrolquist and the dummy. Please, someone explain that to me. Obviously a bad guy, and I'm assuming slightly (or totally) insane since this is Gotham and everyone is slightly nuts.


Steph L. - Aug 26, 2004 9:25:18 am PDT #5632 of 10000
this mess was yours / now your mess is mine

I think the ventriloquist and dummy are just slightly saner than Batman, actually.


Polter-Cow - Aug 26, 2004 9:29:51 am PDT #5633 of 10000
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

Like the ventrolquist and the dummy. Please, someone explain that to me.

Ah, Scarface. I remember him from the animated series. The old guy is of course completely nuts, and as far as I can tell, Scarface is pretty much an alternate personality who speaks via his ventriloquism. I really like him/them cause it's so bizarre. I forget the ventriloquist's name, but he's so very intimidated by his dummy. I love it.


askye - Aug 26, 2004 9:41:46 am PDT #5634 of 10000
Thrive to spite them

Thanks PC!

I wasn't sure if Scarface was an alternate personality or somebody cursed into dummy form or an alien. All of them seemed possible.

While I'm at it I have a question about No Man's Land vol 1. There's a gang of men who are bald with scars and they are refered as False something or the other. I want to know what their deal is.


Polter-Cow - Aug 26, 2004 9:43:08 am PDT #5635 of 10000
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

I wasn't sure if Scarface was an alternate personality or somebody cursed into dummy form or an alien. All of them seemed possible.

Aha. Heh. So you'd never encountered him at all. I've gotten most of my comics info from the animated serieses. They're good stuff.

Here's some info from dcuguide.com:

Incarcerated, Arnold Wesker found that a ventriloquist's dummy began to talk to him, teaching the art of ventriloquism and ultimately helping him to escape. This dummy, calling himself Scarface then became a major force in the Gotham City crime scene, particularly in drug-dealing. Wesker became the mild-mannered Ventriloquist, who seems to act at all times under Scarface's influence; it is unclear whether Wesker is evil, insane or genuinely driven by the dummy; similarly it is unclear whether Scarface is in fact, a 'real' entity. The two have encountered Batman many times, though of course, Scarface refers to him as 'Gatman' as ventriloquists can rarely pronounce the letter 'B'. Perhaps his most diabolical scheme was when Wesker disguised himself as 'the Quakemaster', claiming to have caused an earthquake which devastated Gotham and demanding millions in cash to prevent aftershocks. As ever, he was apprehended by Batman.