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'The Message'


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Discussion of Buffy and Angel comics, books, and more. Please don't get into spoilery details in the first week of release.


sumi - Jun 14, 2004 6:58:45 pm PDT #3780 of 10000
Art Crawl!!!

Entire run of Nightwing up for auction on Ebay.


victor infante - Jun 14, 2004 7:24:01 pm PDT #3781 of 10000
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.

Thoughts on "Identity Crisis" #1:

I've had the first issue awhile now, and it haunts me in ways few comics do anymore. Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm still a big fan of the men in tights--not like that. Usually--but frankly, most of them are fun but discardable. Take, for example, JLA, which has gotten attrocious and is about to get bumped off my pull list.

But "Identity Crisis" is getting to me. For those not following who don't mind being spoiled, the first issue centers on the murder of Sue Dibny, the wife of a long-lived but fairly obscure character, the Elongated Man. I've had a couple conversations with younger comic readers lately--both online and in real life--who are pissed off that the big murder was such a minor character.

Fuck them. Fuck their johnny come lately selves back to the the Todd McFarlane crap. (: I'm exaggerating, of course, but this dismisal seems to miss the point of the story--that people like this put their loved ones in danger. Sue Dibny was a great (if, for me, really painful) choice because not only had the character been around long enough to know everyone in the "super hero community," her and her husband were, as funny book characters go, downright down to earth and relatable. Her death is heartbreaking, and you can feel the thought that their loved ones could be next reverberate through Superman, Green Arrow, even Batman (who, in a lovely touch) we feel the presence of throughout the book, but never actually see.

And then there's the Elongated Man--Silver Age detective with dumb stretching powers--being put through an emotional ringer that just sings from the page. The heartbreak at Sue's funeral, as he can barely speak, ais agonizing. But then there he is when he's working, investigating the murder, piecing together who it is, and he's sharp. Confidant. Meltzer's dug deep and found the core of this character--the only detective who can give Batman a run for his money--and used the pain as a lens to see it with. I've read mountains of poetry that have failed to do that.

And then there's the mysterious "secret" held by Ralph, Green Arrow, the Atom, Black Canary, Zatanna and Hawkamn. Of that, I know nothing yet, but I'm on the edge of my seat.


Mr. Broom - Jun 14, 2004 7:46:54 pm PDT #3782 of 10000
"When I look at people that I would like to feel have been a mentor or an inspiring kind of archetype of what I'd love to see my career eventually be mentioned as a footnote for in the same paragraph, it would be, like, Bowie." ~Trent Reznor

See, I catch up on the entire thread 'coz I hear where they're having classic X-Men discussion and then I find out it's, like, two hundred posts back. Crushed, I tell you. Also, P-Cow, I have the first thirteen or so issues of US-M, and I have no idea why I stopped buying them, 'coz it was all gold. I've loved Mark Bagley since he was doing Amazing Vol. 1 when I started collecting comics in the early nineties, and he's only gotten better.

Also, I just messaged you back on IM just now, so I'm not sure why I'm posting this.


P.M. Marc - Jun 14, 2004 7:49:32 pm PDT #3783 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Victor, thinking about the issue gives me uncomfortable skin prickles.

More below in whitefont.

It also makes my eyes curiously damp. I love the way Meltzer set it up, so that from the beginning, when they're talking in Opal City, the moment we're at "Seventeen minutes till now." you know, just *know* that it's going to be Sue dying. You know, and you want to be wrong. I cannot overstate how much I wanted to be wrong. I found myself thinking, as Ralph talked, "Well, maybe it could be one of the Kents! We saw the Kents a page or two back!" as if that were a comforting thought to have. Because with just a shadow of detail, just the line about butter pecan, you get it. Get why Ralph loves her. And as a reader, even if you don't know her well, you love her, too. Meltzer said who died wasn't the point or the mystery. It's the why. I went from sorrow to a deep sense of dread, wondering what had happened, what they'd done, what secret they have that's that deep, that terrible.


victor infante - Jun 14, 2004 7:56:18 pm PDT #3784 of 10000
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.

Plei, I'm with you on the prickles. I knew almost instantly, and damn, BM made me feel it all the way through. Not sure I can forgive him for that. But you know, I think Superman telling Pa Kent to lock the door behind hiim was even more chilling, the sudden realization that even Supes has something to lose.

I don't know what the secret is, although I think we get let in on it next issue. But I think BM's made it quite clear that all of their secrets are now on very shaky ground.


P.M. Marc - Jun 14, 2004 8:01:58 pm PDT #3785 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

With this, and with everything else, it feels like the year where we all see what everyone in the DC universe can lose. It's shattering, or feels shattering, on a human level, in ways that previous big events haven't.


victor infante - Jun 14, 2004 8:05:10 pm PDT #3786 of 10000
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.

It's hard to say, without knowing the big secret, but I do think this wil spread from Elongated Man to others in the JLA. There's a lot of speculation about various heores identities getting out, and that could be devestating.


P.M. Marc - Jun 14, 2004 8:10:28 pm PDT #3787 of 10000
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Which titles do you read, out of curiousity?

Also, do you happen to know/recall how long this was in the making/planning? Because it seems like a 'verse-wide leitmotiv coming to a head, and I'm wondering how coordinated that was.

(I read almost all the Bat titles, including Robin, Nightwing, and Birds of Prey, and I also read Flash, Outsiders, Teen Titans, Green Arrow, and Green Lantern. Oh, and Adventures of Superman.)


Michele T. - Jun 14, 2004 8:16:27 pm PDT #3788 of 10000
with a gleam in my eye, and an almost airtight alibi

Of course the other critique I've seen of Identity Crisis you might call the Gail Simone one, which is out there in spades along with the fanboy one.


victor infante - Jun 14, 2004 8:18:05 pm PDT #3789 of 10000
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.

Which titles do you read, out of curiousity?

I'm in transition, but basically, I'm reading Identity Crisis, Outsiders, JSA, Green Arrow, Teen Titans, Fables, Promethea, various Hellboy stuff, various X-Men stuff, Swamp Thing and Ultimate Fantastic Four.

I'm also reading Avengers and Justice League, but their stock with me is plummeting.

Lastly, reading the Authority, Planetary and Starman in trades, which is mildly frustrating, as Starman's been FINISHED for three years and there's at least one more graphic novel left. Maybe two.

Also, do you happen to know/recall how long this was in the making/planning? Because it seems like a 'verse-wide leitmotiv coming to a head, and I'm wondering how coordinated that was.

Usually these things are planned at least a year in advance, often more. (Which may explain the minor continuity errors that popped up in IC, like Tim Drake running around as Robin after his father learns his secret, or Capt. Atom being alive (which can be explained away, as it's Capt. Atom, and he's done that before.

I drift in and out of BoP. Don['t know why. Also, been meaning to pick up Flash again.