And yeah, that means I'm accepting the war thread as dead. Wolfram, I'm sorry if this makes you feel like what little support you had is deserting you, but at least to me, it seems like time to throw in the towel. Well past time, actually. I won't withdraw my seconding of the war thread should it ever be allowed to be put on a ballot, but don't count on my support or my vote from here forward. Sorry, man. I know you care a lot about this.

First of all, I want to say that I appreciate being part of a community where respect and personal feelings are more important than “issues”. If only the world was more like this board.

I have been posting here for several months now, and I believe that my posts have been courteous and respectful throughout. In the last few days I’ve been a bit persistent about a position I felt needed to be hashed out, partly because I was feeling like the new system wasn’t being given a chance to work and we’ve spent weeks here hammering that system out. I also felt that if I stopped supporting my position, it would be because people wanted to stop the argument, and not because the position was wrong. Which to me is not a good enough reason to drop something.

Well, it should have been a good enough reason. Over the weekend I’ve Doblerized, and though some things may be important enough to inadvertently cause this much dismay and hurt feelings, the war thread issue isn’t one of them. So I want it to go away. After careful thinking about this, I realized the issue has already been decided.

Yesterday, I challenged the board to provide a link to the consensus that old issues were subject to the (to be determined) moratorium period. That place wasn’t found. However, whether or not old issues are subject to the moratorium period is the next issue queued for a vote. If the board decides that old issues may be revisited under the new rules, and not subject to the new moratorium, then the war thread issue is next for the discussion since it’s gotten four “seconds”. If the board votes that old issues are subject to the moratorium, then the war thread issue is moot and dead until the moratorium is over. Does everybody agree with that?

Finally, I’m really not privy to much in the way of back channel and I don’t know if I’ve made any enemies over this. I doubt I’ve made any friends. I want you to know the feeling is far from mutual. I appreciate the respect and courtesy I’ve been shown throughout, and have tried to disregard anything that was less than that. I especially appreciate the posts from people like DavidS, Betsy, Askye, Deena, (I know I’ve left a bunch of people out) who honestly attempted to discern what I was trying to say and help me to understand them in return. In the future I will try not to let this thread get so adversarial.

Group hug!

stupid war.

I completely agree with the idea that people are on edge because of the war. I've seen it in several places over the past few weeks.

Absolutely and completely, I agree. Either that, or the entire world has PMS. Occam's Razor suggests it's the war...

If the board decides that old issues may be revisited under the new rules, and not subject to the new moratorium, then the war thread issue is next for the discussion since it’s gotten four “seconds”. If the board votes that old issues are subject to the moratorium, then the war thread issue is moot and dead until the moratorium is over. Does everybody agree with that?

A hearty yes.

Wolfram--great post. You have my friendship and my respect, FWIW.

Finally, I’m really not privy to much in the way of back channel and I don’t know if I’ve made any enemies over this.

I knew I should've e-mailed you! I'll just say front-channel that I'm not reading you shaking my fist at the screen. More like wanting to send hugs and featherbed armor, because arguing is strainful even when you stay courteous and respectful.

hah! more strainful I think.

You did okay Wolfram. It's good to know you're not tearing out your hair in distress.

I've adopted the motto Doblerize! for myself. I had no idea it was so effective.

I’m really not privy to much in the way of back channel and I don’t know if I’ve made any enemies over this. I doubt I’ve made any friends

I think you've conducted yourself courteously throughout. Not that I've been Little Miss Actively Involved, like, but I've been following the debate, albeit erratically. There have been differences of opinion and misunderstandings all round, and nerves have been frayed. But I never doubted your sincerity, nor have you seemed, to me, to be intentionally inflammatory. (Although my first reading of the 2nd 'banning' remark was initially that it had that intention - but I think you explained & contextualised it thoroughly.)

(fwiw, I'm not big with the backchannel either)

I knew I should've e-mailed you! I'll just say front-channel that I'm not reading you shaking my fist at the screen. More like wanting to send hugs and featherbed armor, because arguing is strainful even when you stay courteous and respectful.

Wolfram, I feel the same way Nou does. And fwiw - there was no back channel here. I understood your devotion to the principle, I just also understood the other devotion to the other principle. There were no shaky fists here. Thank you for what you just did. Very much.

Coffee and donuts are on me, Buffistas.

1) Cindy, why on earth are you awake so early?

2) Do you deliver aforementioned coffee and donuts?