Oh, smacked in the noggin with a 2x4 wrapped in velvet. Yeah, that's what it felt like.

Lorne ,'Smile Time'


Bureaucracy 1: Like Kafka, Only Funnier  

A thread to discuss naming threads, board policy, new thread suggestions, and anything else that has to do with board administration and maintenance. Guaranteed to include lively debate and polls. Natter discouraged, but not deleted.

Current Stompy Feet: ita, Jon B, DXMachina, P.M. Marcontell, Liese S., amych


Jon B. - Mar 11, 2003 4:59:40 pm PST #7094 of 10001
A turkey in every toilet -- only in America!

I didn't see a consensus for it. I saw the usual gang of fourteen.

If the "gang of fourteen" are the only ones giving an opinion, then how else do you propose we reach consensus.

Let me ask this differently - How do you propose we vote on questions 3 & 4 (min turnout and secondses) if we don't use a preferential ballot?


P.M. Marc - Mar 11, 2003 5:05:50 pm PST #7095 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

If the "gang of fourteen" are the only ones giving an opinion, then how else do you propose we reach consensus.

I honestly don't know. I mean, at this point, I know people are avoiding the thread (because they've said so in other threads), and that they "trust the process/don't want the headaches." But ends up being kind of circular, because I get the impression that the Go14 thing is part of the reason people get frustrated and leave the thread. So, who knows, and who knows how to get people invested in actually stating an opinion when, at the end of the day, they have other things on which they'd rather be spending their frustration points.

As for 3 and 4, I'd have to think about it.


Laura - Mar 11, 2003 5:11:14 pm PST #7096 of 10001
Our wings are not tired.

Although there may be a Go14, the voting process yielded 100 votes. Often when I visit here someone has already made the points I see so I don't bother to post. I am not alone in that practice.


Sophia Brooks - Mar 11, 2003 5:11:41 pm PST #7097 of 10001
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

I feel as though we are at an unbreakable impasse here, and the same one we were at a few weeks ago, which is namely how to decide these 2 questions that seem to require more then 2 choices.

---------------- ITEM 3: VOTER TURNOUT How many Buffistas does it take to make a vote count? Do abstentions count toward this? For the first part, I propose a set of choices: 25, 50, 75, 100, 150, other. Or some other set. And I don't know if we should do preferential voting or not. Sorry. For the second part, it's a simple yes or no. If you vote yes, you would allow people to register their vote as an abstention -- that is, with no preference for either choice -- and that vote would count toward the minimum number. If you vote no, you want only votes that prefer one option to count toward the minimum. ---------------- ITEM 4: SECONDS How many Buffistas should it take to bring a proposal to a formal discussion and vote? a. 0 b. 3 c. ? d. some other number? (OK, so the actual question would be something like this: Before a proposal moves to formal discussion, is there a minimum number of people who have to agree? Or something. I'm kind of lost. Ideas on phrasing?)


P.M. Marc - Mar 11, 2003 5:12:40 pm PST #7098 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Although there may be a Go14, the voting process yielded 100 votes. Often when I visit here someone has already made the points I see so I don't bother to post. I am not alone in that practice.

Yeah, which means that if you aren't one of the posters, you're not counted in consensus, and there was on the table the idea that there is now consensus for a specific type of voting.

edit: This one time, that is.


Jon B. - Mar 11, 2003 5:13:01 pm PST #7099 of 10001
A turkey in every toilet -- only in America!

I get the impression that the Go14 thing is part of the reason people get frustrated and leave the thread.

I don't mean this as a personal attack on anyone because lord knows I'm probably just as guilty of scaring people away as anyone, but I think the reason people get frustrated is that we're so bogged down in the minutia of the process, that we haven't been able to decide anything.

I have made a proposal on how to decide this next round of votes. I saw a lot of posts from people agreeing with my proposal, and very few from folks against it (I admit my perception may be colored). And I've seen no counter-proposal from those who are against it. Even some folks who are hesitant about using a preferential ballot have agreed to try it this one time. Can we just get this moving?


P.M. Marc - Mar 11, 2003 5:14:31 pm PST #7100 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Could you relink to your proposal?


Jon B. - Mar 11, 2003 5:15:30 pm PST #7101 of 10001
A turkey in every toilet -- only in America!

Could you relink to your proposal?

Just that we decide these two questions (that Sophia just restated) via preferential ballots.


Sophia Brooks - Mar 11, 2003 5:17:31 pm PST #7102 of 10001
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

I cannot sit through another preferential voting debate. Ever.

Are there any viable options on how to vote on 3 and 4?

My original idea was to try and come to a consensus of 2 numbers and vote on that, but I don't think we can do that.

Other ideas?

we have

1 preferentail.
2. runoff


DavidS - Mar 11, 2003 5:18:24 pm PST #7103 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

One of the Davids said Keep it Simple and we've gone way past that.

Yeah, I did. I like Laura's summation back a few posts.

Let's give the practical application approach a try. Let us do the preferential ballot on this go around and see if people are comfortable using it and understand how it tallies. Let us not get ahead of ourselves again.

Tight focus. Next step. Keep it simple. When we get the results we'll have a lot more to work with.