I would like to respectfully point out that if we go with a preferential ballot, then we can include 10 and 65 as two of the options, and those who would prefer a deathmatch can put those two options as their first two choices. Those who don't like those options can choose something else.

What I think is getting lost is that a preferential vote is just like reaching a consensus. Except that everyone gets to participate, not just the poeple who happen to be around at the time.

From the point of view of the vote count? No. From the point of view of the MVT? That's up for debate. But the meaning of abstaining remains the same--it's not a vote.

Yes, but in the particular case of abstainers counting toward MVT, it's like raising your hand and saying "present -- but I abstain".

Taking a week off is probably good, although we knew we would have to vote on all these things once the votes come through.

However, is there any way we can do some sort of vote on the Buffy/Angel whitefont policy thing that we were discussing before this started? Even if we don't agree on how to count the votes? We may not get to it before Buffy is over....

on edit--

Or just deal with the question in some way. I hate to see this voting stuff get in the way of making the board function.

Sophia -- While the discussion was going on during the first round of voting, I proposed that we just institute the one-week-Buffy/Angel-whitefont thing, since I thought we'd reached consensus. Several folks said no -- that we should wait until the voting scheme is decided. I wonder if folks still want to wait?

Okay.

Several people have registered their discomfort with pushing another vote forward at this point or even discussing the voting issues right now.

For the people still interested in forging ahead, I'll just ask, one more time, stop and look at the people who are uncomfortable. Do you value them in the community? I do. Then try to register that this very process is alienating them, and feels counter to their expectations about the board. Even if you can't understand why they feel that way, just let the knowledge that it is that way sit with you for second. Even if you feel strongly that we are so close and we could nail everything down now, I am telling you that we are on the verge of everything sliding away. More forward momentum could send us down the slope.

We may need some time off from the voting or discussing it. I do hear Sophia's point that the spoiler/xover/whiteout issue between the Buffy and Angel threads is time sensitive. But I am hearing and feeling "critical irritation mass" coming on. If the point of establishing the voting is to ease friction, then let us keep that in mind now. Because I'm seeing friction. And resentment. The first vote and the consensus around it seems tenuous to me now and I would ask you all to hold on to it...gently. A little time and space might be good here.

I guess what's frustrating to me is that we've been really close for awhile, but every time we seem to reach consensus (for example, I thought we'd agreed to try preferential voting this one time), the discussion goes in circles and gets dragged out some more. I just want to vote and get it over with.

I also really truly feel that once we do have the process nailed down, future issues will so much more smoothly than they ever have.

But I hear you David. I'll go to bed now and see where things stand in the morning.

I also really truly feel that once we do have the process nailed down, future issues will so much more smoothly than they ever have.

For the record, I still believe this. But I think we're starting to nail thumbs to the board at this point.

Happy to take a moment, or a week.

At this moment I'm so frazzled I think I'm agreeing with whoever posted last.

But whether we're close to the end or not, we really have come a long way.

We voted on stuff. The results are up and pretty much unambiguous.

Stage one is over, and there are two relatively minor points that need fixing, one of which we knew would probably need fixing anyway.

I know it seems insane to some people that there's been so much discussion of those two relatively minor points since then.

I share Jon's frustration that we're in the process of inventing a really good system for solving this kind of struggle for consensus and it's being delayed ... by this kind of struggle for consensus.

But if Hec and Burrell both say "let's take a week off", that's enough for me.

I love this place, that's why it matters. But the reason I love this place is because I love the people here, so if the debate is spoiling their enjoyment, that matters more.

Warning: This post may contain strongly worded content. Please do not disregard any future posts because I was miffed in this one.

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I hate it. Personally. All of it.

Do remember that voting is a significant paradigm shift from the consensus approach that we've had so far. There is a real danger of people feeling strongly like, "This is not the community I embraced. These are not my values."

Think about the loony yet lovable libertarians among us. Think about what might work without redefining our culture so broadly. Consider that the ballot approving votes may be close to the outer limit for some people, not the beginning of a lot more.

I feel this. Strongly. I feel Plei's 'Fuck it.' Even enough to put my full stop inside my quotes.

I am going to post, because I think the issues matter (if only in the context of our very small, very specific web message board). However, I would prefer to be giving my energy to my professional woes, or the world crisis.

I read 'simple majority' as 'plurality' rather than 50%+1. However, it does not matter because I voted for 'super majority'. I did so because I felt that it should take more than a plurality or simple majority to justify a change to the boards. This means I expected that if a vote did not pass a 'super majority' the vote would be moot, the issue set aside. Since it failed, I expect that if a vote does not pass a 'majority' the vote will be moot, the issue set aside.

I dislike preferential voting because it took a damned long time to explain and understand. I don't care if it is simple, if it can be seen as simple, or can be simply explained. The reality is, we the bureaucratic did not understand it. How much more confusing to the masses?

See above re: vote moot, issue aside.