I do think the question of how we're going to vote on all this needs to be decided

Did the e-mail option get tossed?

Can we do this by email? It seems there are a lot of seperate components to it, so it'd be harder to tally than yes/no.

That is a great point, ita.

I guess we can deal with the clogging if and when it happens.

Also, I was planning on bringing "The List" from WX over here, but I don't want to be proposing every single thing on it.

How about 5, and if that ends up being too few we can raise it, and if it's too many we can lower it. 5 to start.

I do think the question of how we're going to vote on all this needs to be decided

I think Lyra means as separate line items or as one full proposal to which you will vote no if you don't like any part of it.

The poll problem still stands, though -- Mr. Poll doesn't cut it, and rolling our own is going to take time and effort.

If you make a post with multiple choice suggestions, I'd just copy and paste it into an e-mail and indicate which option I'm picking for each portion.

Yes, that too, Sophia. I like the idea of separate line items so people don't have to reject A,B, and C because they dislike D, but that would be much harder to tally.

Wolfram, what's your suggestion for preventing Bureaucracy getting clogged with endless discussion lobbying?

I fear we are getting too bogged down again and will never get anywhere, so I am making a motion based on the main issues concerning voting itself.

I move we hold our initial vote (to see whether or not we'll vote) starting at 12:00am Eastern Time (board time) Wednesday and continuing through until the end of Friday (12:00am Eastern Time, Saturday). Included in this motion are the following items to be included in the vote.

• Item 1: VOTING

A yes vote on this item signifies the voter agrees that we should create a voting system for community decisions that do not require immediate action.

Exemptions: Thread naming, disciplinary action against trolls (although the process itself could come up for a vote at some point) and tasks currently performed by Stompy Feet, including but not limited to board maintenance.

A no vote on this item signifies that the voter does not agree to a voting process to determine the community's will as it pertains to community decisions.

• Item 2: QUORUMS

A yes vote on this item signifies the voter wants a minimum* number of community members voting on any item in order for the vote to count.

A no vote on this item signifies the voter wants implemented the decision of the majority** of voters who participated, regardless of the number of total votes.

• Item 3: SIMPLE MAJORITY

A yes vote on this item signifies the voter agrees that a simple majority vote is sufficient to enact changes for any issue brought up for vote.

If this item passes, we will hold a discussion and vote on how to handle ties. If it doesn't pass, the point is moot.

Regarless, this item does not affect the outcome of Item 2. In other words, if people vote in favor of requiring a quorum on any issue, the quorum requirement will still stand and the smallest majority that would allow an initiative to be voted in would equal [one half + one] of the votes needed for the quorum.

A no vote on this item signifies the voter does not think a simple majority is sufficient to enact change for any initiative brought up for vote, and instead wants a higher majority.

If item is voted down, the size of the higher majority required will be put up for a separate vote.

• Item 4: Discussion and Voting Period Time Limits

A yes vote on this item signifies the voter agrees that a full week's time is sufficient to discuss the issue. The week would be broken down thusly: Discussion: Days 1, 2, 3, and 4. Voting: Days 5, 6, 7. NOTE - added on edit *** When there is a conflict for major holidays (to be defined) we will make accomodations (to be defined) as needed. ***

A no vote on this item signifies that the voter doesn't agree with this timetable and is requesting that the community continue to discuss timetables.

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* for Item 2: Quorum, yes vote: the minimum number will be a number to be determined by the community in a subsequent vote, if item 2 is voted in.

** for Item 2: Quorum, no vote: "majority" is a percentage to be determined by the community in a subsequent vote.

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Any glaring errors? The wording may need refining, but I think it's time to fish or cut bait on voting, because we're getting bogged down in other issues again -- issues that would be best served by having some sort of decision making process in place, whether that process involves voting or me picking numbers out of my arse.

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Attention: The following item has been removed from the motion. I am preserving the text below, on the very-off chance that someone has a valid reason to reinstate it. But for now, I emend my motion to include only the first 4 items.

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THE FOLLOWING ITEM HAS BEEN DELETED FROM THE MOTION

• Item 5: VOTING METHOD

A yes vote on this item signifies the voter agrees to cast votes via email until such time as a poll function can be added to the Buffistas.org site.

A no vote on this item signifies the voter does not agree to vote via email.

If a voter has voted "no" on item one, it is still recommended he vote on item five, with the assumption that item 1 will probably pass.

Wolfram, what's your suggestion for preventing Bureaucracy getting clogged with endless discussion lobbying?

Euthanasia?