Well, we may not have parted on the best of terms. I realize certain words were exchanged. Also, certain... bullets. But that's air through the engine. It's past. We're business people.

Mal ,'Serenity'


Bureaucracy 1: Like Kafka, Only Funnier  

A thread to discuss naming threads, board policy, new thread suggestions, and anything else that has to do with board administration and maintenance. Guaranteed to include lively debate and polls. Natter discouraged, but not deleted.

Current Stompy Feet: ita, Jon B, DXMachina, P.M. Marcontell, Liese S., amych


Kat - Feb 18, 2003 9:18:01 pm PST #4782 of 10001
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

Xposting because this to me is community-related though with a few edits

I've been sitting here thinking about msbelle's post in Natter which she doesn't want to post here. What she brought up has really been on my mind quite a bit over the past few days. I've been in a kingshit mood which isn't really related to here, but is inflamed by here.

I think one of the things that I've been mulling over is that I know our community is changing and that instead of having a conversation about that, we are conversing about things like thread proliferation or how natter is too fast or whatever.

I think one thing that I've noticed is that I feel like, community wide, there is a hunkering down going on that is depressing. It feels like in an effort to shape our community, that people keep knocking at the walls and saying, "I want to create this space just for me and people 'like me' and I want it to operate in this manner. If it doesn't operate in this matter to suit me, then I'm going to keep bringing it up until it does suit me!"

People complain that Natter has become so superficial and so uninteresting. I think, to paraphrase Nutty, it's become a place of my dinner discussion coupled with "Timelies". What worries me is that as we remove the "content" type posts from natter, it will only become worse. Deep things can be discussed, but it feels like we don't discuss them because we don't want to upset anyone or to offend anyone. There's a whole lot of eggshells and I feel like I'm tiptoeing a lot.

But I don't think it's true for just Natter. Lots of the conversations here have moved to the surface. We are all hiding in corners where we feel safe and unthreatened and, well, unchallenged. This of course is a blessing but it's also a curse. Without impetus to lean into discomfort a little, there is also little impetus to grow. Maybe right now this is all about comfort, rather than learning?

I guess I'm just sad because I don't feel like I can voice a minority opinion anymore. In my paranoia, I feel like there are long silences and tense pauses after I post. Maybe it's me being paranoid. Or maybe I'm just annoying people and they are going back channel in an effort to keep it polite. But I miss times when people keep it real too.

If I'm the only one dissatisfied (and I don't think I am), then I'll just roll up my carpet and go for a while because I miss the old Buffista vibe.

If I am not the only one, then I propose a change. To make change possibelf or me, I'm going to drop Bureacracy completely because it just pisses me off and raises my blood pressure (in part because of what I stated above)

So, as of now, I'm declaring a Take Back Natter campaign. I don't mean that I don't want any of you to stop nattering. In fact, just the opposite, I want us all to Talk Hard. It might be uncomfortable, but it also might bring the magic back.


Angus G - Feb 18, 2003 9:21:14 pm PST #4783 of 10001
Roguish Laird

Thanks for that post Kat. I'm not sure I'm dissatisfied in exactly the same ways as you, but I am dissatisfied.


Connie Neil - Feb 18, 2003 9:41:06 pm PST #4784 of 10001
brillig

Lots of the conversations here have moved to the surface. We are all hiding in corners where we feel safe and unthreatened and, well, unchallenged.

Not true of Bitches, IMO. I don't hang in Natter because it does move too fast, but that's my problem, not Natter's. Substantive things do get brought up in the show threads, between episodes, and some of those conversations get fairly gritty. I've seen Bureaucracy get very challenging--sometime's it's the most invigorating thread on the board.


Hil R. - Feb 18, 2003 9:46:58 pm PST #4785 of 10001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Not true of Bitches, IMO.

Really? I've felt that that's more true of Bitches. So many people have said that Bitches is their "safe space" that I'm really reluctant to bring up anything too controversial there.


Connie Neil - Feb 18, 2003 9:48:23 pm PST #4786 of 10001
brillig

I'm really reluctant to bring up anything too controversial there.

Really? I thought "safe space" meant they felt safe in bringing up matters. I've seen some fairly amazing admissions in there.


§ ita § - Feb 18, 2003 9:50:02 pm PST #4787 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I thought "safe space" meant they felt safe in bringing up matters.

Safe space also moved the politics out, so YSMV.


Rebecca Lizard - Feb 18, 2003 9:50:17 pm PST #4788 of 10001
You sip / say it's your crazy / straw say it's you're crazy / as you bicycle your soul / with beauty in your basket

Wrod. I think it's open for nearly anything. Occasionally people have asked things like, no politics, and that's seemed to work; but still I feel it's pretty much default to anything.

t xpost


Hil R. - Feb 18, 2003 9:53:04 pm PST #4789 of 10001
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Really? I thought "safe space" meant they felt safe in bringing up matters. I've seen some fairly amazing admissions in there.

Ah, I think we're talking about slightly different things here. Or maybe two sides of the same issue. What I mean is that people treat it as the place for those admissions, and the community feel in there is very anti-conflict. I don't feel comfortable in there bringing up something that I know some people will disagree with, and I don't feel comfortable disagreeing with something that someone else posted, because it seems like that would be disturbing the "safe" conflict-free atmosphere.


Connie Neil - Feb 18, 2003 9:53:52 pm PST #4790 of 10001
brillig

Safe space also moved the politics out, so YSMV.

honestly baffled Is this the "no war talk, please?" thing?


Connie Neil - Feb 18, 2003 9:55:53 pm PST #4791 of 10001
brillig

I don't feel comfortable in there bringing up something that I know some people will disagree with, and I don't feel comfortable disagreeing with something that someone else posted, because it seems like that would be disturbing the "safe" conflict-free atmosphere.

Or it could help clarify a matter that someone else can't articulate.