I teach online and it's a very hard line to walk between saying "this is how we converse here" which is my job--and sounding condescending or bossy. Sometimes the mere act of explaining can sound punitive and patronizing or the person spoken to finds the mere act of being told what to do pushes all kinds of buttons. It's very difficult-- I have years of experience at it and still fuck up on a regula basis.

MM--I think some of the stuff for Newbies that has felt like exclusion to you might have been people honestly trying to say "Our boundaries are a little different than other places , let me explain them" At least that's what I was trying to do with Schmoker and I think others (not everyone of course) were trying to do. I can see where I might have given a diferent impresion and I am sorry for that.

I'm all for new blood coming in- How cool are Plasmo and Deena and Paul and lotsa of other peoplel I'm forgwetting right this second? Very cool.

MM if someone you'd never spoken to before went into natter and asked your wife to take down her pants so she should be spanked, would you have reacted precisely the way you reacted to Phill? Perhaps.

Perhaps not. But I wouldn't come into Bureaucracy and scream about it, and I would be upset and embarrassed if a dozen or so other people chimed in with "Yeah, let's GET HIM!"

We're not going to have a GROUP hug, Connie, but EACH of us is going to hug YOU...

Cool! Or not, depending on if I'm channelling Diana from "Waiting for God" or not when you all get here.

Awwww. I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy inside (re. p.m.m.'s love).

I'd like to suggest that this is the civilized way to handle people who annoy you -- gossip behind their backs.

Wow do I not agree with this. If you can't say it to someone's face, my personal policy is to try not to say anything. Not saying I'm always so angelic, but to characterize gossip as civilized doesn't work for me. IJS.

I don't know if we've ever been the community MM suggests we were until recently, but I think the fact is that some of us think we are. And it may be an impossible ideal. Worth working for, but to work for it the blinders have to come off. We ain't perfect. Sometimes we're wrong. Sometimes we ignore people we don't know because the posting pace is too frenzied, and sometimes we ignore them because, possibly, we're too lazy to make them feel welcome. I say we because I do it too.

This "Core Buffista" thing really bugs me, too. Maybe 'cause I don't feel like one, but knowing that such a thing exists is not quite the same as speaking about it as if there's a secret cabal.

That was all kinda random. Sorry.

Christ. My employer's software developer's list is having a flamewar about Martin Luther King.

What IS it about January?

Is this the definition of a clique? If Sebastian is perminantly shut out from the "hey bitch" stage because he came around too late, then yeah.

But these people don't get the chance. If Sebastian tried that and all your friends jumped on his shit and made him feel like leaving never to return...

At least that's what I was trying to do with Schmoker and I think others (not everyone of course) were trying to do. I can see where I might have given a diferent impresion and I am sorry for that.

I have to say that I have been really admiring your way with the newcomers that sometimes rub people the wrong way, but I think have good intentions. You are gentle and firm and not condescending at all, IMO.

Christ. My employer's software developer's list is having a flamewar about Martin Luther King.

Suggest the Barney song to *them*...

But these people don't get the chance. If Sebastian tried that and all your friends jumped on his shit and made him feel like leaving never to return...

I don't think we jump people's shit. I think we explain our standards to people who have violated them. There's a big difference.

I don't understand why earning props and respect is an alien concept to you, MM.

A newbie off the street doesn't deserve the respect I, or you get. They deserve the same respect we give anyone, just because they're human. What they do, how they behave, what they contribute earns props.

It's not kumbayah, but it works. People have to work at making friends and influencing people. They have to contribute in such a way that doesn't alienate the people who built this community.

New blood, new ideas, all good. We have an assload of cool newbies. We've had far fewer people that grate. We're doing okay.

Protect the culture.

Or, go lurk at the BronzeBeta for a couple of weeks and see where "let's give everyone a flower and sing kumbayah" gets you.