Christ. My employer's software developer's list is having a flamewar about Martin Luther King.

What IS it about January?

Is this the definition of a clique? If Sebastian is perminantly shut out from the "hey bitch" stage because he came around too late, then yeah.

But these people don't get the chance. If Sebastian tried that and all your friends jumped on his shit and made him feel like leaving never to return...

At least that's what I was trying to do with Schmoker and I think others (not everyone of course) were trying to do. I can see where I might have given a diferent impresion and I am sorry for that.

I have to say that I have been really admiring your way with the newcomers that sometimes rub people the wrong way, but I think have good intentions. You are gentle and firm and not condescending at all, IMO.

Christ. My employer's software developer's list is having a flamewar about Martin Luther King.

Suggest the Barney song to *them*...

But these people don't get the chance. If Sebastian tried that and all your friends jumped on his shit and made him feel like leaving never to return...

I don't think we jump people's shit. I think we explain our standards to people who have violated them. There's a big difference.

I don't understand why earning props and respect is an alien concept to you, MM.

A newbie off the street doesn't deserve the respect I, or you get. They deserve the same respect we give anyone, just because they're human. What they do, how they behave, what they contribute earns props.

It's not kumbayah, but it works. People have to work at making friends and influencing people. They have to contribute in such a way that doesn't alienate the people who built this community.

New blood, new ideas, all good. We have an assload of cool newbies. We've had far fewer people that grate. We're doing okay.

Protect the culture.

Or, go lurk at the BronzeBeta for a couple of weeks and see where "let's give everyone a flower and sing kumbayah" gets you.

Oh, wait. We all hug Jesse, too.

Nooo! Hug Connie! Only Connie!

I don't know if we've ever been the community MM suggests we were until recently, but I think the fact is that some of us think we are.

And gossip is what's made that possible. IJS. I mean, maybe I'm just a secret bitch, but I do a lot of eye-rolling in real life, and a small but significant amount of back-channelling because no one sees me roll my eyes at the computer. That's just the way it goes.

Or, go lurk at the BronzeBeta for a couple of weeks and see where "let's give everyone a flower and sing kumbayah" gets you.

Yes, I'm truly suggesting some hippie flower child "Give Peace A Chance" folk song crap like that. This is the guy who seriously advocated an "Asshole" thread.

I could reiterate my position again, but I think I've either made it and it's being ignored, or it won't be gotten.

and a small but significant amount of back-channelling because no one sees me roll my eyes at the computer.

See I would do this, but then it makes me wonder what everyone is saying about me! Because I am paranoid.

But I wouldn't come into Bureaucracy and scream about it, and I would be upset and embarrassed if a dozen or so other people chimed in with "Yeah, let's GET HIM!"

You may have been embarrassed, but all of those people had the right to express that discomfort. Just because many people jumped on Schmoker doesn't mean there was a pre-existing intention to try to get him pissed off enough to leave; it meant that that many people were offended.

Of all the things that annoy me about bulletin boards, it's the idea that we have a groupthink and act in concert. We don't ignore people en masse, and we don't all jump on people on purpose, either.

I could reiterate my position again, but I think I've either made it and it's being ignored, or it won't be gotten.

It's that I don't get it. Maybe i need a thesis statement.