So far, counting only votes that were cast 'as votes', we have 9 for yes, 2 for no and 3 4 abstinating (sp?).

Lyra Jane's numbers show an even bigger majority for the 'yes' camp.

[Edited to include Jess' vote]

Well, I wasn't advocating that exactly, just saying it was a point. I'm sort of slightly ambivilant; although fucked if I can remember how to spell it. And I definetely wouldn't go with that exact phrasing.

Earlier, I commented on how no one linked to this thread in Firefly before....

I think this question is also about just posting a link in the thread they're in saying "We're talking about you in Bureaucracy. Come on over and have your say."

This is a distinction that bothers me. "You can mount your own defence if you realise you're under review and can find where the discussion is going on." If we're talking about action as serious as suspension, then I don't think the quality (indeed, the presence) of a defence should be decided by the non-offence related factors.

Edit: I don't know if anyone is proposing such a position, so this isn't directed at anyone. In particular, it's not directed at the messenger.

If we are discussing suspending someone in this thread I think they should be pointed here to defend themselves in the official warning. It may well shorten the time spent on the unpleasantness as the person may either understand where they are violating community standards and change or decide to leave.

I'm a wishy-washy yes. It won't mean that a little music natter, when it arises in Bitches or Natter, will get stomped, right? No more than a talk of books in Bitches last week was stomped.

I'm gonna go pout in the corner cause I like the big group places.

I love the idea of Natter as a big cocktail party that never ends, where everyone is there chatting and flirting and porning. But realistically, I can't keep up. I miss a lot. I can't imagine I'm the only one. I'd like a music thread because there I could learn from Hec and Hayden and perhaps occassionally (sp?) add an intelligent comment of my own.

HI KNUT!!!!! (an excellent example of people I NEVER SEE ANYMORE!!)

I'm right here! (Hugs msbelle)

It won't mean that a little music natter, when it arises in Bitches or Natter, will get stomped, right? No more than a talk of books in Bitches last week was stomped.

That's not the intention of the thread. Natter will e'er be Natter, and no one's going to tell the Bitches what to do. A music thread will just be a little more tightly focused discussion.

Raising another issue here: in practical terms, how would we go about preventing a person from joining in a discussion about whether to suspend/ban them?

Honestly, I don't think we could prevent someone who *knew enough* about Buffista etiquette to come here to discuss the subject. That's the key. Most of the trouble we'll have will be with folks who drop in looking for a fight, not with longtime Buffistas. But say I *knew* that there was talk of me going on in Bureaucracy--I'd come and post my defense. And I would be pissed as hell if I was told that I was explicitly not allowed to defend myself publically, I had to go through the admins.

I'm less sanguine about a specific movie thread - that's the kind of thing I'd like to see stay in Natter.

There's no justification for creating a general interest thread for Music but not for Movies that I can see. As much as I hate the idea, if we are creating more general threads, there's no reason not to create Cooking or Eating or Painting or Rock Climbing or whatever threads.

Just for the record - really no porn in Natter. Porn is in the NC-17 threads almost exclusively - I think even moreso now that we have a 10 year old poster.

If we are discussing suspending someone in this thread I think they should be pointed here to defend themselves in the official warning.

I'd agree with that, fwiw. I do also feel that a person should get two warnings prior to being told they're suspended, with the second warning making it completely clear of what the consequences will be if behaviour isn't modified. (This is maybe a reflection of my approach to classroom behavioural control, but it seems to fairest to me.) It would be appropriate, in either of these warnings, to point the person over to Beaurocracy so that they could see what the nature of the problem was, if it hasn't sunk in yet - and that gives them a chance to say their bit in a slightly more official environment.