If we are discussing suspending someone in this thread I think they should be pointed here to defend themselves in the official warning. It may well shorten the time spent on the unpleasantness as the person may either understand where they are violating community standards and change or decide to leave.

I'm a wishy-washy yes. It won't mean that a little music natter, when it arises in Bitches or Natter, will get stomped, right? No more than a talk of books in Bitches last week was stomped.

I'm gonna go pout in the corner cause I like the big group places.

I love the idea of Natter as a big cocktail party that never ends, where everyone is there chatting and flirting and porning. But realistically, I can't keep up. I miss a lot. I can't imagine I'm the only one. I'd like a music thread because there I could learn from Hec and Hayden and perhaps occassionally (sp?) add an intelligent comment of my own.

HI KNUT!!!!! (an excellent example of people I NEVER SEE ANYMORE!!)

I'm right here! (Hugs msbelle)

It won't mean that a little music natter, when it arises in Bitches or Natter, will get stomped, right? No more than a talk of books in Bitches last week was stomped.

That's not the intention of the thread. Natter will e'er be Natter, and no one's going to tell the Bitches what to do. A music thread will just be a little more tightly focused discussion.

Raising another issue here: in practical terms, how would we go about preventing a person from joining in a discussion about whether to suspend/ban them?

Honestly, I don't think we could prevent someone who *knew enough* about Buffista etiquette to come here to discuss the subject. That's the key. Most of the trouble we'll have will be with folks who drop in looking for a fight, not with longtime Buffistas. But say I *knew* that there was talk of me going on in Bureaucracy--I'd come and post my defense. And I would be pissed as hell if I was told that I was explicitly not allowed to defend myself publically, I had to go through the admins.

I'm less sanguine about a specific movie thread - that's the kind of thing I'd like to see stay in Natter.

There's no justification for creating a general interest thread for Music but not for Movies that I can see. As much as I hate the idea, if we are creating more general threads, there's no reason not to create Cooking or Eating or Painting or Rock Climbing or whatever threads.

Just for the record - really no porn in Natter. Porn is in the NC-17 threads almost exclusively - I think even moreso now that we have a 10 year old poster.

If we are discussing suspending someone in this thread I think they should be pointed here to defend themselves in the official warning.

I'd agree with that, fwiw. I do also feel that a person should get two warnings prior to being told they're suspended, with the second warning making it completely clear of what the consequences will be if behaviour isn't modified. (This is maybe a reflection of my approach to classroom behavioural control, but it seems to fairest to me.) It would be appropriate, in either of these warnings, to point the person over to Beaurocracy so that they could see what the nature of the problem was, if it hasn't sunk in yet - and that gives them a chance to say their bit in a slightly more official environment.

A place to post porny pictures of pretty pickguards!

(I vote yes to music)

no porn in Natter

Fair point, well made.

This is a distinction that bothers me. "You can mount your own defence if you realise you're under review and can find where the discussion is going on."

Yeah, I get that. But at the same time I'm not sure a "come over here and let's fight about it" message is any better. Especially early on, people bring their concerns here partly to avoid starting a big head-on confrontation I think, and to try to step aside for a moment and get some other perspectives. This discussion is open to anyone, so it's not like a backchannel discussion (which does bother me), but...huh. Not sure where I'm going with this, except that I'm not entirely down with the formalization of this discussion that an official "come defend yourself or accept the judgement of the thread" statement implies. Likewise, a thread devoted entirely to these discussions gives me a major wiggins.