I am not...I am not the damsel in distress. I am not some case. I have to work this. I've lived in a cave for 5 years in a world where they killed my kind like cattle. I am not going to be cut down by some monster flu. I am better than that. What a wonder...how very scared I am.

Fred ,'A Hole in the World'


All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American

Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.

Add yourself to the Buffista map while you're here by updating your profile.


P.M. Marc - Jan 22, 2012 10:52:31 pm PST #9524 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

(I, umm. Sometimes suspect Moffat and I share an id. And we call it Jeff.)


Zenkitty - Jan 22, 2012 10:58:27 pm PST #9525 of 9843
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.

I do think part of Moffat made her a gay pro dom partly because in his id, that's like, the ideal woman.

I was gonna say, he's not the only one.


Sue - Jan 23, 2012 3:52:50 am PST #9526 of 9843
hip deep in pie

(I, umm. Sometimes suspect Moffat and I share an id. And we call it Jeff.)

HA! And, oh dear.


§ ita § - Jan 23, 2012 4:41:42 am PST #9527 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I think Moffat has already done the heavy lifting required for me to not give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to writing women. They come off better onscreen than they do in his interviews, but when it comes to filling in the cracks and answering questions, I remember shit like this:

"There’s this issue you’re not allowed to discuss: that women are needy. Men can go for longer, more happily, without women. That’s the truth. We don’t, as little boys, play at being married - we try to avoid it for as long as possible. Meanwhile women are out there hunting for husbands."

So it colours my interpretation of the Irenes of the world. It can't not.


P.M. Marc - Jan 23, 2012 7:39:13 am PST #9528 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Apparently, that particular quote was taken out of actual context.

Me, my Moffat memory is always going to be the whole bimbos in miniskirts thing from his Usenet days.


§ ita § - Jan 23, 2012 7:45:53 am PST #9529 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Do you have the larger context? I'd be interested to see how that's mitigated with other words.


P.M. Marc - Jan 23, 2012 8:11:26 am PST #9530 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Do you have the larger context? I'd be interested to see how that's mitigated with other words.

Someone amended a rant on it with it at one point recently, but I can't get to it from here. The apparent context was him speaking about character POVs in Coupling, rather than his own personal POV.

Not that he doesn't say utterly stupid things on a regular basis. I just think that he writes complex women better than almost any other male writer, despite himself.


amyth - Jan 23, 2012 8:17:25 am PST #9531 of 9843
And none of us deserving the cruelty or the grace -- Leonard Cohen

The interview: [link]


Consuela - Jan 23, 2012 8:18:12 am PST #9532 of 9843
We are Buffistas. This isn't our first apocalypse. -- Pix

I just think that he writes complex women better than almost any other male writer, despite himself.

I've seen that before: there are writers who are openly anti-feminist, and who might even say things about women that I disagree with fiercely--and yet in their fiction, they give me multiple women with complicated agendas and importance to the plot.

Granted, there aren't a lot of those writers, but it's more common than you would think. Possibly because actually writing sexist fiction results in bad fiction, or at least fiction with poor characterizations, IMO.


DavidS - Jan 23, 2012 8:42:32 am PST #9533 of 9843
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I've seen that before: there are writers who are openly anti-feminist, and who might even say things about women that I disagree with fiercely--and yet in their fiction, they give me multiple women with complicated agendas and importance to the plot.

Dave Sim used to write great women characters.