Basically, that her story in ACD canon is hardly the most feminist of messages.
Agreeing with you there. Actually agreeing with everything you just said.
It's simple. I slap 'em around a bit, torture 'em, make their lives hell...Sure, the nice guys'll run away,but every now and then you'll find a prince like Spike who gets off on it.
Buffy ,'Get It Done'
All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American
Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.
Add yourself to the Buffista map while you're here by updating your profile.
Zenkitty - Jan 20, 2012 7:57:06 pm PST #9510 of 9843
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.
Atropa - Jan 20, 2012 9:03:32 pm PST #9511 of 9843
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.
Basically, that her story in ACD canon is hardly the most feminist of messages. Jilli knows the full rant. It's long.
But it's a great rant. A really, really great rant.
Get used to it, remember the fourth wall exists for a reason
I am learning to re-embrace the fourth wall in terms of the creators of media I like. Because sometimes the urge to shake those creators and say "you didn't really just do that, did you?" really interferes with my enjoyment of things.
P.M. Marc - Jan 21, 2012 7:41:12 pm PST #9512 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
Oy. Apparently, Moffat is really bad because he was offended by a columnist in the Guardian calling him sexist, and by stating in public that he was offended, this is how we know that he will never improve or grow as a writer or a human being, because he is a man with power, and will never understand how hard it is to talk about sexism, and is using his man powers to silence women by... disagreeing with them?
GET. OFF. MY. SIDE.
I'm pretty sure of the Guardian lets you write about your issues with the sexual politics of Irene Adler as done by the BBC, you don't need any protection from the big, mean Scotsman.
PS, I've been watching Moffat since before you could bleed, girls. He actually HAS improved.
Were we ever this earnest and lacking in context when we were bright young things?
§ ita § - Jan 21, 2012 7:48:19 pm PST #9513 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I think we're this earnest and lacking in context now. It's fandom. People care intensely about loosely overlapping things created by other people and recreated by us in our image. Oh, yeah.
P.M. Marc - Jan 21, 2012 7:50:41 pm PST #9514 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
I think we're this earnest and lacking in context now. It's fandom. People care intensely about loosely overlapping things created by other people and recreated by us in our image. Oh, yeah.
I refuse to believe I'm earnest about anything. Except how irritating I find the kids these days.
When did I wind up on the wrong side of the generation gap? (Which, when I was five or six, I thought was the same as the gender gap. THEY STARTED WITH THE SAME LETTERS, OK? My sister laughed at me.)
§ ita § - Jan 21, 2012 7:51:28 pm PST #9515 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I refuse to believe I'm earnest about anything
Oh, we are. When we think we're right, "they" think we're earnest.
P.M. Marc - Jan 21, 2012 7:59:01 pm PST #9516 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
Oh, we are. When we think we're right, "they" think we're earnest.
See, usually, when I think I'm right, people think I'm a horrible bitch. But earnest is perhaps a nice way of saying that.
Zenkitty - Jan 21, 2012 8:14:54 pm PST #9517 of 9843
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.
What I'm not understanding is, why does not being sexist mean you must write every woman as powerful, sexy, independent, yadablahblah. And conversely, if you write a woman who is not, you are sexist, regardless of how the other women in your work of fiction are portrayed.
Not that Irene Adler wasn't... but why can't she be a sex worker and be a powerful independent woman and maybe need to be rescued from certain death at some point? How do any of those things negate the others?
Scrappy - Jan 22, 2012 9:15:28 am PST #9518 of 9843
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
What Zenkitty said.
§ ita § - Jan 22, 2012 9:20:49 am PST #9519 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I think a hesitation is that some people see a shortcut in a 21st century willing sex worker is a shortcut code of "empowered woman owning her sexuality". Like one implies the other, as opposed to both merely co-existing.
As for women needing rescuing...it's not every show's every episode's responsibility to show a woman come out on top. But balance is nice.