Inara: Mal, this isn't the ancient sea. You don't have to go down with your ship. Mal: She ain't going down. She ain't going anywhere.

'Out Of Gas'


All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American

Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.

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Calli - Jan 06, 2012 10:41:47 am PST #9421 of 9843
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

it places the death of Holmes at a date before His Last Bow, which is canon-canon and all.

That's unfortunate. If they're gonna meddle with the death date, I'd rather go with the way King pushes everything forward into the 1920s.


DebetEsse - Jan 06, 2012 10:54:48 am PST #9422 of 9843
Woe to the fucking wicked.

Plei, that is interesting. I can't imagine that he would tell John that she was dead and not expect Sherlock to figure it out, whatever other factors were in play.


Calli - Jan 06, 2012 10:57:31 am PST #9423 of 9843
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

I like the theory that Mycroft and Sherlock conspired to get her away from the terrorists, and now she's working for Mycroft. Mycroft tells John the cover story to let Sherlock know what info has gotten into general circulation, and so John can inadvertently help get it there. [I read this somewhere on Tumblr, and, like most things Tumblr, I doubt I'll ever be able to find it again for linking. Sorry.]


P.M. Marc - Jan 06, 2012 10:57:35 am PST #9424 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Oh, and to the terrorism point, we're watching a show where the title character was willing to give up state secrets for his flatmate, where the flatmate killed for the title character when they'd barely met, and where the brother of the title character does all sorts of cheerfully dubious things for king and country, and where no one has hands that are especially clean.


P.M. Marc - Jan 06, 2012 11:01:26 am PST #9425 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

I have scores of theories on those last two scenes.


DavidS - Jan 06, 2012 11:25:42 am PST #9426 of 9843
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

But they weren't revisited in the same way that Sherlock Holmes or Dracula is. The constant movies were essentially one franchise, though without the stricture we nerds apply today. Outside of that within my viewing lifetime, there's been one TV show, one live action movie, and one cartoon? And not that recently.

From wikipedia: "The Internet Movie Database lists 89 movies with Tarzan in the title between 1918 and 2008."

So, a lot.

There were silent versions, the famous Weissmuller versions, Lex Barker's five RKO movies from the late forties to early fifties, the late fifties to mid-sixties version with Gordon Scott (which ran for six films) then Mike Henry continued that franchise up to '68, the Ron Ely TV series in the late sixties (two seasons but rerun constantly in to the seventies), Christopher Lambert's Greystoke in the 80s, two radio shows, stage versions. Several cartoon TV variations. There have been many many international variations on Tarzan too.

It's one of the most famous and long running adventure comics of all-time first with Hal Foster, then with Burne Hogarth and Russ Manning. The Kubert comic version is (in my opinion) one of the definitive treatments and one of the best comic runs of the 70s.

The original books have never been out of print.

Holmes has had ups and downs in his popularity too. The Holmes franchise had a weird little bump when it came into public domain and things like Murder by Decree and The 7 Percent Solution came out, but it was largely fallow until Jeremy Brett's version. And then again it was quiet until the RDJ movie version.

After the Disney animated movie, there were two direct-to-DVD sequels, and there was a spinoff animated TV show. There was a live action TV show as recently as 2003. And it's currently being worked up for a movie trilogy.

You're really underestimating the unceasing ubiquity of Tarzan-ness.


§ ita § - Jan 06, 2012 11:32:04 am PST #9427 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

You're really underestimating the unceasing ubiquity of Tarzan-ness

I am. Because it's not in my face. Which is the entirety of my point. Sherlock Holmes has been in my face constantly since House started. The actual Tarzan name doesn't have the same common presence right now.


Calli - Jan 06, 2012 11:44:00 am PST #9428 of 9843
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

The Holmes franchise had a weird little bump when it came into public domain and things like Murder by Decree and The 7 Percent Solution came out, but it was largely fallow until Jeremy Brett's version. And then again it was quiet until the RDJ movie version.

I don't know about that. Two of my favorite Holmes based series started in 1990 (Douglas's Irene series, 9 books total) and 2002 (King's Holmes series, 10 books so far), which are well between Brett (~1985) and RDJ's Holmes (2010).


Tom Scola - Jan 06, 2012 11:49:46 am PST #9429 of 9843
Mr. Scola’s wardrobe by Botany 500

Disney had a Sherlock Holmes cartoon, too: [link]


Calli - Jan 06, 2012 12:13:06 pm PST #9430 of 9843
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

Tarzan does have more current presence than a lot of stories from the Victorian period. And, like Holmes and Dracula, it's another story of a charismatic man with powers beyond that of the mainstream Victorian Englishman. I'm not sure we can include it with the Victorian lit, as the first Tarzan story was published in 1912. But it does look at a late-British Empire society through the eyes of someone who's both an outsider (due to where he was born) as well as a member (heir to Greystoke).

Holmes is a member of his society through birth and habit, but perhaps a bit of an outsider due to being the most unsociable man ever born (according to Watson). And Dracula is all outsider, foreign on every level. They all provide different views of the Empire, which they examine as they try to to fit in (Tarzan), solve its crime (Holmes), or infiltrate it (Dracula).

Aaaand this is all getting a bit astray from Sherlock. Sorry.

Actually, it does make me wonder. Now that the UK is fairly post-Emperial, does that make a difference with the Sherlock stories?