Oh, no, oh, no! Spontaneous poetic exclamations. Lord, spare me college boys in love.

Dr. Walsh ,'Potential'


All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American

Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.

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P.M. Marc - Aug 14, 2003 11:59:39 am PDT #6329 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

I'm thinking of when Jenny and Tara died, and pretty much the only thing she was thinking about was keeping Giles and Willow from killing people.

When Jenny died, she was thinking about keeping Giles from going in and committing suicide, which is basically what his attack on Angelus and Co. amounted to, and when Tara died, she came close to dying herself, and then tried to keep Willow from killing people/destroying the world/getting lost forever in her grief.

Keeping things together when they're falling apart, saving the world, that's what she does.

What the devil would you have had her do? Bake them cookies?


Madrigal Costello - Aug 14, 2003 12:00:08 pm PDT #6330 of 9843
It's a remora, dimwit.

I didn't see the Hellmouth itself getting more powerful - it's like a metaphysical garage door. It was just that FE Srta Comeculo was getting powerful enough to open it herself without having to magick humans into doing it for her.


Madrigal Costello - Aug 14, 2003 12:01:41 pm PDT #6331 of 9843
It's a remora, dimwit.

Yeah, Buffy was being practical. Just as she was practical in her plan that resulted in Anya dying, because the scooby's SO's are acceptable losses. She's not going to risk the world or the fight for the loved ones of her loved ones.


§ ita § - Aug 14, 2003 12:04:38 pm PDT #6332 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Just as she was practical in her plan that resulted in Anya dying, because the scooby's SO's are acceptable losses. She's not going to risk the world or the fight for the loved ones of her loved ones.

How was Anya at significantly more risk than Giles or Xander? The idea that Anya was tossed out as cannon fodder confuses me.

She tried to save Dawn. That's all. Everyone else was fighting, one way or another.

Anya died because Joss didn't want to kill a core Scoob, not because Buffy was protecting them unduly.


P.M. Marc - Aug 14, 2003 12:06:05 pm PDT #6333 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Yeah, Buffy was being practical. Just as she was practical in her plan that resulted in Anya dying, because the scooby's SO's are acceptable losses. She's not going to risk the world or the fight for the loved ones of her loved ones.

Except for Dawn, she wouldn't risk the world or the fight for her own loved ones, either. (Though she supposedly came around to that as an acceptable loss in LMPTM.) There's no special status given to anyone who gets in the way of saving the world.


Madrigal Costello - Aug 14, 2003 12:08:53 pm PDT #6334 of 9843
It's a remora, dimwit.

I got the impression that she meant for both Xander and Dawn to be far away from the battle with that plan, and she might have figured Willow'd be able to protect herself, and Giles, well, Bizarro!Giles probably has demon-tooth proof skin. But she allows for a lot of losses. When she saw that the school had become a serious threat for the students - one even blew up right in front of her - she didn't think to try to get the school evacuated or have Willow do a spell to protect students. She didn't know them, so she didn't care so much.

And there is the theory that Anya died because Tara died and Spike died. They wanted symmetry of all the scoobs losing dear ones so that it would seem easier for them to all stay together as a family in their sorta Manson-esque school bus.


meara - Aug 14, 2003 12:23:54 pm PDT #6335 of 9843

the theory that Anya died because Tara died and Spike died. They wanted symmetry of all the scoobs losing dear ones

Hey, don't forget Jenny in there! Each of the four lost a somebody...


evil jimi - Aug 14, 2003 6:33:36 pm PDT #6336 of 9843
Lurching from one disaster to the next.

Yeah, Buffy was being practical. Just as she was practical in her plan that resulted in Anya dying, because the scooby's SO's are acceptable losses. She's not going to risk the world or the fight for the loved ones of her loved ones.

Let's not forget that the SOes were there out of choice, as were the Scoobs. At any time, any of them could've bailed and (probably) remained alive but they didn't, for whatever reason.

Let's also not forget Wesley's remark to Gunn (paraphrasing); if you try to keep everyone alive, everyone will die. Buffy knew this all too well, which is why she died twice and why she was willing to sacrifice the "loved ones of her loved ones" if the deaths of a few could prevent the deaths of billions.


P.M. Marc - Aug 14, 2003 6:36:53 pm PDT #6337 of 9843
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear

Let's also not forget Wesley's remark to Gunn (paraphrasing); if you try to keep everyone alive, everyone will die. Buffy knew this all too well, which is why she died twice and why she was willing to sacrifice the "loved ones of her loved ones" if the deaths of a few could prevent the deaths of billions.

(And people wonder about my OTP.)


evil jimi - Aug 14, 2003 6:39:11 pm PDT #6338 of 9843
Lurching from one disaster to the next.

OTP?