I bow to your wisdom, oh 'one of more advanced years than I'.
See, in my fantasy, when I'm kissing you... you're kissing me. It's okay. I can wait.
Oz ,'First Date'
All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American
Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.
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moonlit - Apr 13, 2003 3:22:30 pm PDT #3349 of 9843
"When the world's run by fools it's the duty of intelligence to disobey." Martin Firrell
Typo Boy - Apr 13, 2003 3:22:41 pm PDT #3350 of 9843
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.
We xposted. But I don't really think it is the fault of science; science provides the tools. The various technologists can figure you out ways to grow food, heat houses, dispose of your shit so it does not cause diseases, cure a lot of disease we do get, transport people to various locations. But no science can make people love one another; it seems a bit unfair to blame science for that. That, it seems to me, is up to us.
Zoe Ann - Apr 13, 2003 3:23:37 pm PDT #3351 of 9843
Mathair & Athair beo.
I like science, science can be fun, but culturally I still tend to think in metaphors.
Madrigal Costello - Apr 13, 2003 3:23:57 pm PDT #3352 of 9843
It's a remora, dimwit.
Well, when a person isn't starving or suffering leprosy, it is a lot easier to love one's neighbor and not just think of raiding their village, stealing their stuff and plundering their nubiles.
Typo Boy - Apr 13, 2003 3:29:27 pm PDT #3353 of 9843
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.
Well, when a person isn't starving or suffering leprosy, it is a lot easier to love one's neighbor and not just think of raiding their village, stealing their stuff and plundering their nubiles.Agreed - but just having the tools to keep people from starving or suffering leprosy is not enough to keep them from starving. They have to have sufficient access to wealth and income to actually use them and not starve etc...
Which of course is where politics and economics come in.
Madrigal Costello - Apr 13, 2003 3:31:46 pm PDT #3354 of 9843
It's a remora, dimwit.
Well yeah, it's what's done with the knowledge and skills. A history teacher used to use the example of early humans discovering sharp rocks. Some would think to use them to prepare food, and others would think to use them to whack their neighbors to steal their food.
Typo Boy - Apr 13, 2003 3:34:51 pm PDT #3355 of 9843
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.
And where I think moonlit and I would agree is in believing the "use sharp stones to whack" people are pretty much in charge everywhere right now.
Typo Boy - Apr 13, 2003 3:38:08 pm PDT #3356 of 9843
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.
Oh and question for anyone who is familiar with the subtleties of English as spoken by the Irish.
I grew up near an Irish bar, and ran into an Irish acquaintence recently. He spoke of his wife as "Herself". I've encountered ths term spoken by Irish men before. It sometimes refers to a woman they love, sometimes to one they hate, but always it seems to one they fear, and who is important in their lives. Do I grasp the connotation properly?
Fay - Apr 13, 2003 3:39:14 pm PDT #3357 of 9843
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.
I have a lot of sympathy for Moonlit's stance, but I agree that
no science can make people love one another; it seems a bit unfair to blame science for that. That, it seems to me, is up to us.
Absolutely. Yes. (Although I actually found The Amber Spyglass tremendously disappointing. I wanted a sense of spiritual depth, and I didn't like the ending at all. YMMV.) But I don't feel confident that my comforts aren't founded upon other people's poverty. Coffee, chocolate, sugar, trainers, clothes - lots and lots and lots of things that I use are produced by people who are being exploited and kept in poverty (even effective slavery, for a lot of the cocoa trade, apparently). I mean, I suck, so I make only half-assed efforts to buy FairTrade type products - I'm not being moral highground girl. But my understanding is that, for these people to enjoy near-middleclass Western conditions, the actual middleclass Western folks would have to give up some of the stuff they take for granted. And people absolutely won't do that for the greater good. I mean, I agree that it's the politics and economics that's the problem, but I think that the middle class westerners are culpable to some extent.
This may just be because I've been fed this stuff, mind you - I'm by no means an expert on international politics. But I think that consumerism - the very concept of consumerism and wastefulness, which is so thoroughly ingrained in the West, is a Bad Thing. Labels. Logos. Throwing stuff away when it's still useful. All that stuff. The sense of value being limited to how much money it costs absolutely permeates our society, and it's terribly flawed, but it's insidious. Depressingly so.
...shutting up now.
Madrigal Costello - Apr 13, 2003 3:40:54 pm PDT #3358 of 9843
It's a remora, dimwit.
And on the subject of rocks, I just found something on statistics that contains this quote, "Neurobiologist William H.Calvin suggested that early human mothers carried their babies in their left arms, close to the soothing rhythms of the heart, leaving their right hands free for throwing rocks at rabbits."