moonlit - I had forgotten that. I actually went to apologize to you and, I forget what happened to distract me from doing so, but I really was snappy and touchy and I think I was bringing real life emotions into a civilized conversation. I'm sorry that you even felt you had to apologize.

Cool.

GROUP HUG!

You know, now that I think about it, I haven't seen a $100,000 bar in the longest time...

I also used to be abnormally fond of frozen Charleston Chews.

Are we back? Are we really back?

Yes, we're back.

I just had to post this, from yesterday's (Friday's) NY Times. It's about all the looting (which bugs me about the hospitals but NSM about places like Aziz' palaces):

"The looters appeared, mainly, to concentrate on sites associated with Mr. Hussein, sparing most private homes and businesses.

Among the attacks that had a strong political edge were those on the German Embassy and the French cultural center, both in east Baghdad. Few Iraqis were unaware, in the weeks preceding the war, that France and Germany were leading international efforts to force President Bush into accepting an extension of United Nations weapons inspections here, and to delay military action against Mr. Hussein.

The French and German buildings were stripped of furniture, curtains, decorations, and anything else that could be carried away.

At the French cultural center, where looters burst water pipes and flooded the ground floor, books were left floating in the reading rooms and corridors, and a photograph of Jacques Chirac, the French president, was smashed."

I'm chortling with sympathy! C'mon, no matter how you felt about the war this is funny.

Caroma, I know I said only the other day that I didn't mind this becoming the de facto war thread, but is there a particular reason you're posting all your war-related posts in the Unamerican thread? Not a complaint, just a question.

Right up there with the LA riots. Hilarious. Pant-wettingly funny.

Crumbs, Caroma, we have such different takes on this that I can't even be sure why you find this funny, which makes me sound spectacularly po-faced. People are looting their own cities. Nobody is playing the role of the police, and the thing of it is that if we play the police, then we're making it look like we've taken over, and that's bad too. But if we don't, then there's nothing to keep people from running riot. Any amusement that I could get out of the symbols of France and Germany getting their come-uppance would be pretty much negated by the fact that the looting of these places is set within a context in which lawlessness and destruction is rife. These people, whose thoroughly unpleasant government we've wiped out, now have to contend with this shit. I really do hope that the best comes from all this. That would be great. Fingers crossed. But, no, I can't find myself moved to laugh at the situation right now.

According to CNN :

"Thieves armed with AK-47 assault rifles are breaking into homes, shops and ministries, walking away with everything from furniture to kerosene, residents say.

"They are terrorizing our neighborhoods. At night, during the day, they steal everything," said Hussein Akil, standing with an angry crowd on one of Basra's main streets.

According to the BBC:

Red Cross [warns] that the Baghdad medical system has virtually collapsed amid the continued violence and fear.

But there are signs that US forces are beginning to step in and restore order after looters turned to raiding people's homes.

Baghdad is still dangerous with gunfire in the streets of the city and continued fighting in the north-eastern suburb known as Saddam City.

The BBC's Paul Wood in Baghdad reports that violence is now crossing the religious divide, with some Shia Muslims fighting gun battles with their Sunni neighbours.

Small numbers of bodies of looters or their victims are now being buried by the roadside.

and

Baghdad :: Caroline Hawley :: 1212GMT

Ordinary people are getting increasingly angry about the continued anarchy here. They say it shouldn't be allowed to happen. It feels like the fall of the regime has left a very dangerous vacuum.

People here really want the Americans and British to step in and fill it. They have begun to do that. They are calling for people to show up for duty - people who could restore the water treatment systems, the electricity and the police.

We're not sure how many have shown up but there is a major catch - the Americans are asking people to volunteer to do this. There is no system to pay them.

* * *

Baghdad :: Paul Wood :: 1128GMT

Ever since the US forces arrived as liberators, Baghdad has slipped deeper into anarchy. At one hospital the BBC interviewed a doctor in a surgical mask and gown and carrying a Kalashnikov.

He said he had had to fight off looters who were coming like rats.

The International Committee of the Red Cross says it is extremely alarmed at a situation where Baghdad's medical services are in a state of near collapse.

There was also a lengthy gun battle near the capital's main museum this morning. Archaeological treasures from the dawn of civilisation lay broken in pieces.

People hadn't even bothered to steal much of what was there, only to destroy.

t /Humourless!Fay

What FayJay said, only what has been described makes the LA riots sound like a picnic in the park. This is more like the fall of Constantinople.

Edit: I am so very proud to have been associated with these people.