All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American
Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.
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Sorry Betsy, I haven't said anything wrong or offensive have I?
I don't think you realize that the civil rights movement isn't universally recognized as a good thing.
Do you mean that there is a fairly high percentage of Americans who think that segregation/non-voting etc should still be in effect? As in the fairly commonly held view that even though African Americans have legal equality, right to vote and be voted for etc. America is still very racist.
Or that millions of Americans believe the gravest civil rights abuse current at the moment is the denial of the rights of whites.
As in they feel that the pendulum has swung too far the other way, a backlash?
As in they feel that the pendulum has swung too far the other way, a backlash?
Yes, that's it. There are people who feel we've Gone Too Far, that since there is no more discrimination it's time that white folk, particularly men, got their due.
Whatever.
Sorry Betsy, I haven't said anything wrong or offensive have I?
No, no, far from it. I'm just responding with despair.
Yes to both of your questions. Various politicians have made healthy careers using coded phrases to express their disapproval of civil rights -- Jesse Helms, for instance, calling Martin Luther King a Communist. Jesse Helms won his 1990 election by running an ad showing two white hands crumpling a sheet of paper. "You needed that job. And you were the best qualified. But they had to give it to a minority."
Cites
Is it because many who have experiential, or at least academic understanding, of such major issues as civil rights and equality, recognise that those are aspects of democracy that we have only recently figured out for ourselves?
I'd say experiential is the key. The people I've met or known (Larry Goodwyn, the Rev. James Lawson, a handful of SNCC organizers located in the NC Triangle area) who were part of that first round of nonviolent direct action in the civil rights movement have been some of the most passionate committed small-d democrats I've ever known. Academic understanding is a step removed, and the people, like me, who have encountered these forms of democratic ideals in the classroom may feel committed, but it's hardly the same thing as being tested in the proverbial trial by fire. Even many of the student demonstrators today are not receiving that sort of experience. The dance between protesters and authority has become far more formalized in the intervening time.
Anyway, I've highly recommended Larry Goodwyn's books before, but again I say that the guy's understanding of history and philosophy is profound and profoundly influenced by his experience as a Texas Observer reporter on the ground floor of the 1965 SNCC campaign in the South. Larry's most profound works are about the Farmer's Alliance, which became the Populist Party, and the Solidarity movement in Poland. Both are flat-out amazing in capturing the importance of democratic ideals and communication in movement-building and movement-sustaining.
Yeah, but...what kind of percentages are we talking here? I mean, yeah, obviously there's a sizeable number who feel "it's gone too far". And there's bound to be a few whackos who believe giving up slavery was going too far. But are there really large numbers of people out there who seriously think we should go back to Jim Crow laws, or something??
Yeah, the two examples I was going to use was those politicians who blame migrants and working women for all the woes of society, particularly unemployment.
Sarameg, this from the article, blunt and to-the-point,
Other than Britain, we bought this alliance. Almost every government in it is operating without the support of its people.
and this,
Other than Britain, we bought this alliance. Almost every government in it is operating without the support of its people. Fighting this war without international legitimacy is hard enough, but trying to do nation-building without it could be even harder.
Regarding the "it's gone too far" issue about equal rights, I think it depends on what part of the country you are in and what types of people you are talking to.
Unfortunatly I know and have worked with people who are very racist and do believe that white people are getting the short end of the stick, that they are being kept out of jobs and college because of affirmative action. They also think that non whites should "know their place" or "be grateful" for where they are now and stop whining about slavery and things like Jim Crow laws and segregation. They are the same people who say things like "America for Americans" and classify "Americans" in the very narrow category of being white and Protestant and thinking like they do.
These people generally aren't too happy with equality that women have and think that equal rights for women have gone too far as well.
These are people who, when they think they are in the company of others who think like they do, will use racial slurs and make racist jokes and talk about "those people" and not see what the big deal is.
Even when I don't agree with him (and the quote from above, I wholeheartedly agree) , I usually end up appreciating the way he frames his points.
I've got a thing for the development of democracies. I think there is more than one formula. And imposition is the worst variety out there. There really ought to be a cultural context for it, or it isn't going to go so well.
Meara, that was going to be my next question. What sort of percentage of the population, or percentage of voters.
Betsy thanks for the link I understand the despair. Do you guys have racial vilification laws?
Hayden thanks for info. Will look up Goodwyn. I don't have much specific stuff on the civil rights movement or minority politics.
Like hate crimes, right? Yeah. But that has taken time too.
