Folks - if you are in the middle of doing something wrong, and realize it is wrong, you stop doing it. You lose face - yeah you blew it, you lose face.
Gar, I agree with the above, as far as it goes. But losing face isn't the only problem here, nor is it the most deadly.
As to what to you do; you negotiate; you take advantage of ending to war to get the inspectors back; you end the civilian sanctions that have killed so many Iraqis over the past 12 years, and have military only sanctions, backed by inspectors. You provide aid thorugh aid organizations to rebuild the water supply and ability to grow food; none of it goes to the Saddam regieme, but you do capital in investment in Iraq to rebuild water stations, sewers, hospitals, schools, so that people are no longer just living (and dying) on charity. And given contact with the outside world, with no 12 year siege or attack to rally people around Saddam he will fall. It wil take longer than if we had not had the war, because he gains cred for having survived the attack - but it still leads to a better result for Iraq and for the world than if we finish the war.
Do you think that the above is do-able with Saddam in power? And would he fall, really? This is what I wonder about. Like you said, it's not going to happen; we're not taking our ball and going home. But if we were to, part of me thinks invading, wreaking havoc and then stopping would rally people behind him all the more, especially if then there was an end to sanctions and a rebuilding of their infrastructure, with him still in.
And that you don't balance the budget by cutting veterans' services. And that you pay privates a wage sufficient that they don't need food stamps.
This probably belongs in Natter at this point, but this is an issue that is so very much burning my ass. We're sending young people (and I'm with you Betsy, I look at these soldiers and I just see my kids) to war, as we cut veteran services to their Grampies. It's an outrage. Where's our sense of duty. It makes me ill.
Gar, really, you're so very reasonable and logical that you've fallen into the trap of believing everybody thinks like you do! Saddam and his cronies have no interest in the Iraqi people. They don't want to save them, they just want to rule over them. If they lose a million or so during this war, that's fine with them.
Any withdrawal Saddam will see as a victory. That's all there is to it. Hell, he managed to spin GW I as a victory to his people! Betrayed a second time, the Iraqi opposition will wither, as well as many democratic movements across the region who will be stunned that three of the most advanced democracies in the world folded so quickly and shamefully. Exactly what incentive will he have to even let the inspectors into the country again, let alone let them do their work properly? He'll merrily shuffle around the missiles and chem weapons (and won't those be easy to build with the sanctions gone and stuff pouring in from hundreds of miles of borders) and rope-a-dope them at the best, actively repel them at the worst. And when he hurts one of them, what will the team do? Ask for military guard? From the same countries who were within an hour's drive of Baghdad and then threw up their hands and went home?
He'll merrily shuffle around the missiles and chem weapons
These would be the weapons of mass destruction that haven't been found yet and haven't been used yet?
These would be the weapons of mass destruction that haven't been found yet and haven't been used yet?
moonlit ... no, those would be the missles that apparently everyone but the US, saw being destroyed right before Fuckface Dubya launched his attack.
Scott Hope is gay and now on
Queer as Folk
!!
How cute is that? :)
thanks Jimi I was obviously confused.
I have just watched an interview with someone who's name I didn't catch but who was a spokesperson for the humanitarian side who was being asked about the US/coalition stated aim of having the wealth of the Iraqi oilfields used for the rebuilding of Iraq etc.
He pointed out that Iraq is already in debt to the international community to the tune of $130 billion and is still under compensatory debt of $44 billion for the last Gulf War, both debts the US has already said will be paid off as soon as they are in control of the oil revenue.
Fair enough. However he then went on to say that the US govt is illegally (?) demanding all Iraqi money that is held in banks around the world and that this money is part of what has already been earmarked for the contracted US corporations to rebuild and clean up Iraq.
I hadn't heard that last part. I'll put up a link when it becomes available, the program puts its transcripts up on the website a few hours after the show goes to air.
Any withdrawal Saddam will see as a victory. That's all there is to it. Hell, he managed to spin GW I as a victory to his people!
There. Despite my loathing for this war, that's my sticking point, right there, I guess.
moonlit ... no, those would be the missles that apparently everyone but the US, saw being destroyed right before Fuckface Dubya launched his attack.
Which ones are hitting Kuwait?
Which ones are hitting Kuwait?
Probably the half-dozen they didn't get time to dismantle.
Scott Hope is gay and now on Queer as Folk !!
Oh,
that's
where I've seen that guy before. Obnoxious violinist (aren't they all), right?
