Wow!

Interesting that I can BUY desert camo off the internet then, huh?

It depends on how you define "win". I would expect that irritated Iraqis will be picking off occupation soldiers for years. I don't see how it is possible to set up either a stable occupation or a stable peace thereafter

We agree there; I see this as winning the war and losing the occupation.

And on one thing I do agree with the Bush administration: the "oil for food" program has not worked. The money didn't go to food; it went to weapons. The starvation is on our heads, but it is also on Saddam Hussein's. I have no belief that aid organizations could succeed in guiding money only to humanitarian purposes while a Baathist government is in power.

OK - this is where I disagree. Saddam Hussein was always a brutal dictator - but until he invaded Iraq and incurred the wrath of the U.S. he always managed to feed his people. And I'm afraid the oil for food program worked exactly as intended; it just did not have the result intended. If we had wanted to simply disarm Iraq we would have left the orignal inspectors in place without infiltrating spies into them. The goal of sanctions and oil for food was to pressure the population of Iraq into overthrowing Saddam. You can find quotes from Madeline Albright and other officials under both Bush I and Clinton that openly said we had no intention of ever lifting the sanctions no matter what Saddam did, so long as he was in power. And you can find records of stuff like the "dual use" sanctions including pencil leads, because the carbon might be used for biological weapons, and medical textbooks because they could be used to train people in biological warfare. Somehow, for twelve years, the U.S. always managed to find some excuse to hold back key components that would have allowed repair of water facilities. Not only that, but when they came close to being repaired we managed to bomb them in the course of enforcing no-fly zones.

Saddam being a brutal dictator used some of what little Iraq had to build weapons, and buy luxuries for himself and his cronies and the military elite. But if every cent had gone for food and health care he was not in a position to provide basic sanitation or irrigation for agriculture. And that was U.S foreign policy. This is one point maybe a lot of people don't realize; this is not an invasion following twelve years of a mad dictator defying a cease-fire agreement. This is an invasion following twelve years of siege warfare which was resisted by an evil dictator with his people rallying around. And that is why peace would have a chance; peace was never tried following Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

t edited to fix major typo.

The goal of sanctions and oil for food was to pressure the population of Iraq into overthrowing Saddam.

I agree.

So is it just me, or is this thread full of Americans lately?

Look at your invading ways ...

It's an invasion! We're the aggressors! Protest all you like, "Freedom Americans", we're taking over the thread! (x-post)

hastily putting on her Un-American Camo

which consists of .. er... um...

Good shoes! And bad teeth! And really excellent taste in television!

You bunch of cultural imperialists!

Hah. You will watch Buffy, drink Coke, and like it.

singing O Canada

watching birds drop dead