What if (how more hypothetical can you get) the coalition said, "Okay then, we'll stop," -- what then? How should they handle it? Do we just pick up our ball and go home?

Gee, I thought the whole reason to rush INTO the war was because, once there, it wouldn't be easy to end it before reaching "our" aims. Kind of like the rushing into the big idiotic tax cut for the superwealthy because, once enacted, it's harder to later *increase* the taxes once such a move is deemed necessary.

I've been wondering that, too, Cindy. As somebody who thinks this war is wrong (and who really, really regrets not DOING more about that), I don't know what I want the government to do. If the Good Fairy comes down, waves her wand, and says "For the next month, George Bush will do whatever you tell him to do", I have no idea what I say.

I cannot imagine us leaving with the war unfinished. It embarrasses us in front of the world, it reduces our ability to tell other countries (Korea much?) to "Drop that NOW!" But I can't see any way we can finish this war quickly, either. It's a tar baby.

This is very much me, Betsy. Very much. I was dead set against the war, pre-war, but can't bring myself to protest it now, because I can't see an alternative. Eside from embarrassing ourselves and allies in front of the world, it would seem even more irresponsible to abandon it than it was to start it in the first place.

we need to be doing our damnedest to look to what we can build once it's all over, and how we can keep this from poisoning our relations with other countries throughout the Middle East and throughout the rest of the world.

I agree with this too, Fay.

I think the news did say, in the case of the Boston protest, that the rally permit was applied for several weeks ago, before things got officially war-y.

I want to make clear I wasn't disparaging the Boston Protest. It caught my eye, because it was here, and because it seemed to go so well, but it just made me wonder, "To What End?"

I think there are so many different groups involved in protesting, that there's no set answer anyhow. A lot of people are in need of an outlet for their dissent. So many feel their voices weren't heard in the 2000 Presidential election, that I think the frustration level was higher at the outset of this situation (among us common folk) that it usually would be. There's a subset that would be just as unhappy, even if Bush had taken 75% of the popular vote and the electoral college. There's the pacifist contingent (whom I most understand, although I'm not strictly a pacifist). There are those who want us to lose. There are a million opinions in between all of these.

they may be signalling their intent to vote against such policies in future

I really hope an electable alternative to Bush appears on the scene; one I can vote for, one who can win. There are lots of politicians (not necessarily candidates for President right now) whom I could back, but most of them are too liberal or too dry to (imo) be electable.

or even just trying to redress the opinion of their country in the world press. (I, for one, think it's a great idea to remind everyone that a country of 280,000,000 people ddoesn't all think the same way, and by "everyone" I mean both within and without the country.)

If France hadn't threatened to veto, and the UN had gone along with Bush, Blair, Anzar, Howard, et al... How would people here feel about this war today? I'm just curious. Personally? I can't decide if I would be more comfortable or not. I'd take comfort in the fact that we were less lonely, but it wouldn't change the facts of the war itself. I've already found myself falling into the fallback decision of hoping it's over swiftly and decisively with Hussein and his regime out of power.

Gee, I thought the whole reason to rush INTO the war was because, once there, it wouldn't be easy to end it before reaching "our" aims. Kind of like the rushing into the big idiotic tax cut for the superwealthy because, once enacted, it's harder to later *increase* the taxes once such a move is deemed necessary.

Oh, it probably was. But I just wonder about the protests. It really was completely hypothetical - a "where would we go from here" question, because I don't ever see Bush concerning himself with them (at least not 'til it comes close to election time). I know what people don't want to see. I don't know what people now do want to see.

Burrell, excellent point. And it's part of why I'm glad people are going on protesting, rather than just giving it up and calling it a day. (And why I should be out there with those people.)

But just because the war is underway and calling a halt to it tomorrow would likely do more harm than good doesn't mean that there aren't still valid points to be made.

Already the war isn't going as smoothly as the administration assumed. If things continue in this vein, I think a lot of people who supported the war based in part on those assurances of easy success will be looking around and trying to figure out where things went wrong. Maybe they'll take a look at the protestors still out there and decide that their views perhaps bear looking into. If the anti-war contingent has packed up and gone home, we miss a huge opportunity to reach people who are searching and questioning.

Calling off the protests now also sends a bad message to the hawks. Dissenting views are already, IMO, being scoffed at and ignored by those in power. By leaving the field, we tell them that if they just barrel through and do everything they can to lock things in, it'll all get easier. We tell them that we don't need to be listened to, that if they present us with a done deal it'll all go away.

Also, for many people the concern was not just what the U.S. and allies would do in the immediate sense, but what happens afterwards. Many, including myself, take their pledges to guide Iraq to a free, democratic state to be complete and utter BS. And that's not a done deal yet. There's still a chance to impress upon the PtB that in taking on Iraq, they've taken on a responsibility that doesn't go away when Saddam does.

How would people here feel about this war today?

Probably the way I felt about the first Gulf war and the Afghanistan war: sick but resigned. I hated Gulf I, but I honestly couldn't see an alternative.

This time around, I don't believe that alternatives were seriously considered.

Already the war isn't going as smoothly as the administration assumed. If things continue in this vein, I think a lot of people who supported the war based in part on those assurances of easy success will be looking around and trying to figure out where things went wrong.

I just saw some statistics on that. The percentage of people who think the war will be harder than it was made out to be is over half. Support for it hasn't gone down that much. I respect those people who haven't quit their belief even though it looks like it's going to be harder. It seems that they were probably at least realistic about the horror that war is. I still think they're wrong, but at least they didn't go into it buying the cakewalk line.

Maybe they'll take a look at the protestors still out there and decide that their views perhaps bear looking into. If the anti-war contingent has packed up and gone home, we miss a huge opportunity to reach people who are searching and questioning.

That's a good point too.

Dissenting views are already, IMO, being scoffed at and ignored by those in power. By leaving the field, we tell them that if they just barrel through and do everything they can to lock things in, it'll all get easier. We tell them that we don't need to be listened to, that if they present us with a done deal it'll all go away.

This gets to the heart of my feelings on why I can't seem to stop voicing my dissent.

How would people here feel about this war today?

I might feel at least better about the damage to our ability to work with other nations, and their trust in us.

The dolphin's back.

But first, we get the immortal Australian quote:

"Flipper's fucked, mate."

So the dolphin wasn't in league with the terrorists? Go figure.

Well, we don't know where it went in the interim, now do we?