I'm supposed to deliver you to the Master now. There's this whole deal where I get to be immortal. Are you cool with that?

Xander ,'Lessons'


All Ogle, No Cash -- It's Not Just Annoying, It's Un-American

Discussion of episodes currently airing in Un-American locations (anything that's aired in Australia is fair game), as well as anything else the Un-Americans feel like talking about or we feel like asking them. Please use the show discussion threads for any current-season discussion.

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Typo Boy - Feb 02, 2003 7:08:59 pm PST #1538 of 9843
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

And in fact the McDonald's issue brings up an interesting point, if not the one intended. I think what you are describing is actually wrong, but not for the reason given. I don't think it is that it is an old name.

Copyright and trademark have gone crazy. The original intent of copyright was to given innovators an incentive to work at it full time. The original intent of trademark was to prevent fraud - to prevent one business person from taking advantage of the reputation of another by pretending to be that person or part of that business. Both have been expanded into new property forms. It is a new taking for the commons where "The sheep devour the men". The Brits do this as much as the Americans. For example I once worked for Petrobras the Brazilian national oil company. It's trademark was a variation on the Brazilian flag. A British court held that invalid, because the colors were the same as BPS and since both were oil companies this could cause confusion. In short the national oil company of the Brazilian state was forbidden to use the Brazilian Flag! I would say that is worse than the the McDonalds thing. But really they are all part of the same thing - not American arrogance, but corporate power.


Zoe Finch - Feb 02, 2003 7:12:04 pm PST #1539 of 9843
Gradh tu fhein

but corporate power.

Gone mad!


bon bon - Feb 02, 2003 7:13:47 pm PST #1540 of 9843
It's five thousand for kissing, ten thousand for snuggling... End of list.

In short the national oil company of the Brazilian state was forbidden to use the Brazilian Flag!

I don't know anything about British trademark law. But I see nothing wrong with the court refusing to protect a later user in favor of a prior one with a valid trademark. So what? They're forced to use something OTHER than the Brazilian flag to mark their product-- which just happens to be the same product as another's with a similar mark. This is a classic trademark law: preventing customer confusion.


Caroma - Feb 02, 2003 7:15:53 pm PST #1541 of 9843
Hello! I must be going.

Hey, I'm a McDonald! Well, 1/4 anyway. My grandma was Mary Donald Huey McDonald from Glencoe.

In Nova Scotia.

But she sounded pure Scottish.


Zoe Finch - Feb 02, 2003 7:16:38 pm PST #1542 of 9843
Gradh tu fhein

I don't know anything about British trademark law. But I see nothing wrong with the court refusing to protect a later user in favor of a prior one with a valid trademark. So what? They're forced to use something OTHER than the Brazilian flag to mark their product-- which just happens to be the same product as another's with a similar mark. This is a classic trademark law: preventing customer confusion.

What's wrong is the idea that the profit motive should override national identity. Especially when a) the national identity came first and b) the UK would go apeshit if anyone challenged their right to use the Union Jack for any purpose we wish.


§ ita § - Feb 02, 2003 7:18:44 pm PST #1543 of 9843
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

What's wrong is the idea that the profit motive should override national identity

I'm markedly sceptical of the idea that the Brazilian company had something other than profit in mind. Now, the idea that a Brazilian should have first dibs on national iconography to make money? Hell, I'm the girl still mad that Mazda uses capoeira music in their ads.

But so many people that aren't even slightly Jamaican make money off our icons that I have no fight.


Typo Boy - Feb 02, 2003 7:18:56 pm PST #1544 of 9843
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

But the trademarks were really not similar. The Brazilian flag does not look a great deal like the BP logo. It was only the colors that were similar. And if the court was really afraid confusion was possible they could have ordered changes. But they simply forbad the use of those colors. So BP how has a excluse rights on Green and Yellow within the oil business. I'm sorry; that is insane. You do not have to go that far to prevent confusion.

Also , you want a far more aburd case. As a protest, someone has trademarked the phrase "Freedom of Expression". He hoped of course that it would be knocked down. But so far it has been upheld.


Hil R. - Feb 02, 2003 7:19:31 pm PST #1545 of 9843
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

The result of not protecting a name can be seen in the case of Famous Original Ray's. There used to be one pizzeria in New York called Ray's. It was really good, and "Ray's Pizza" got to have a reputation as some of the best pizza in NY. Then some more people opened up pizzerias called Ray's. So then the original Ray's changed their sign to say "Original Ray's Pizza." But then others started saying "Famous Ray's," and "Original Ray's," and by now there hundreds of pizzerias around the city with variations on "Famous Original Ray's Pizza." So the statement "Ray's Pizza is the best pizza in New York" has no meaning anymore, because no one will have any clue which restaurant you're talking about, and someone who's told, "If you go to New York, you have to eat at Ray's," probably won't end up buying pizza at the pizzeria that actually earned the "best pizza" reputation.


brenda m - Feb 02, 2003 7:20:55 pm PST #1546 of 9843
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

But it's not Brazil that's being prevented from doing anything. It's a privately owned company that happens to be from Brazil. Quite frankly, it's refreshing to see the potential for harm to the consumer (confusion) being held above the desires of the corporation for once. [Yes, I know it's actually the other corporation actually being protected, but allow me my delusions.]


Zoe Finch - Feb 02, 2003 7:21:12 pm PST #1547 of 9843
Gradh tu fhein

The result of not protecting a name can be seen in the case of Famous Original Ray's. There used to be one pizzeria in New York called Ray's. It was really good, and "Ray's Pizza" got to have a reputation as some of the best pizza in NY. Then some more people opened up pizzerias called Ray's. So then the original Ray's changed their sign to say "Original Ray's Pizza." But then others started saying "Famous Ray's," and "Original Ray's," and by now there hundreds of pizzerias around the city with variations on "Famous Original Ray's Pizza." So the statement "Ray's Pizza is the best pizza in New York" has no meaning anymore, because no one will have any clue which restaurant you're talking about, and someone who's told, "If you go to New York, you have to eat at Ray's," probably won't end up at the pizzeria that actually earned the "best pizza" reputation.

Boo Hoo.