Third person, GAH. My brain is really, really disengaged this morning and it's going to be a very long day.

I like it as well, Am. But it has to be done properly. What really makes me crazy, in fic or lit or screenplays or anything at all, is the author putting themself into the story without the courage to tell it. And yes, sorry, Sayers fans, but writing herself in as Peter Wimsey's love interest so she could boink her favourite peer of the realm still makes me cringe. If she'd told Harriet's story first person, I'd have liked it better.

Cindy, that sort of thing is what I handle doing 3rd person limited with overlapping POV swaps.

I don't think I know what that is, or rather, maybe how it's done. Isn't third person the impersonal voice of an observer? How do you overlap PsOV and/or swap PsOV, Plei?

deborah - sorry you're having a bad day.

the author putting themselves into the story without the courage to tell it.

You're right, you know. The first-person Mary-Sue is something I've never met.

Perhaps because she has to be 'the same as all the others, only better'?

Deb, I'll ping you tomorrow as my machine didn't lazarus until yesterday at 2am.

I get as wrapped in character heads 3rd person limited as I do in 1st person, maybe more so. I don't really write third person omniscient because it doesn't let me into the heads as well.

I don't think I know what that is, or rather, maybe how it's done. Isn't third person the impersonal voice of an observer? How do you overlap PsOV and/or swap PsOV, Plei?

Scenes. Almost all, okay, hell, all of my longer stuff had POV swaps. Switching POV when I switch a scene. Occasionally having the events of the scenes overlap.

Argh. Hit post before completely explaining. Hrrm. Not good at explaining. Hrrm.

Plei, yes yes yes on the getting as wrapped in third person; so do I. It depends on the writer. But with third person, I sometimes realise that I'm looking at those characters with an odd sort of split, and I have to be careful not to be too arrogant in how I handle them. In first person, when I have the courage to put them on and let their experiences get at me, I'm essentially along for the ride.

That's why Amanda Lisle is such a trippy character to write. I have damned near nothing in common with her except some geography when young and her ability to detach from the world when needed, but putting her on opens things out in me, as a writer. That simply wouldn't have happened in third person POV.

The first-person Mary-Sue is something I've never met.

Here.

I'm a little obsessed with POV. The not-quite-for-pornanthology story that I have almost finished (thanks, Deb!) switches between two explicitly limited 3pPOVs, merely because I don't have what it takes to switch between first persons and make it vaguely intelligible. But I still want each section to feel like the person, smell like the person, and be tainted by the personality.

Well, I'm working on it, anyway.

is the author putting themself into the story without the courage to tell it.

And this, more often than not, is why I dislike first person. And boy, this sounds snippy and arrogant in my own head, but it's never good enough for me, never good enough for me to get sucked it.

Isn't third person the impersonal voice of an observer? How do you overlap PsOV and/or swap PsOV, Plei?

Scenes. Almost all, okay, hell, all of my longer stuff had POV swaps. Switching POV when I switch a scene. Occasionally having the events of the scenes overlap.

Well, scenes. And, which I am particularly guilty of in 'shipper third person fic, switching omniscient points of view. I did it like crazy in this one Wes/Gunn I wrote. Third person can be the impersonal voice of the narrarator, but I find more often than not it's taking the characters and being very personal. By which I mean omniscient.

And you might already know this, I just have no idea what you mean by PsOV.

PsOV (points of view - I was being pedantic in my plural). I still have no clue what anyone means by switching points of view when writing in the 3rd person. I can't wrap my brain around it. Who is speaking and how does that change?