News that they didn't serve gin.

What kind of bar doesn't serve gin? A vodka mill? A vodka joint?

What kind of bar doesn't serve gin?

I wasn't in a bar. I was in a restaurant. Not that the waitress was making much sense--a partial liquor license? Allowed to serve vodka and not gin? No clue. Once we got past the language issues she was a complete doll, so I don't hold her initial misstep against her.

I wonder if it was actual vodka or the kind made out of rice or something similar... with less alcohol content.

Kat! I just got caught up enough in Natter 48 to see your announcement - congratulations!

libkitty -- I know exactly what you mean! I don't want to see that movie with Sean Bean. . . except that Sean Bean looks particularly good in the ads.

It was hard just finding 401k plans that didn't have ridiculously offensive companies on the dole. Today there are purportedly socially responsible investment firms, but it's still pretty tough for the average joe to invest responsibly, let alone someone of that weight of funds.

Yes, not just individuals. As someone that worked in investment consulting for colleges and universities soon after the interest in social investing took off (mostly due to protests about investing in S. Africa), I can say that it is extremely difficult to do. And we advised for 85% of the endowment $ in the US (i.e., lots of money, with lots of investing weight). At the time, I think we had 2 managers in our entire database that did socially responsible investing exclusively. I'm sure there are more now, but interested institutions would still run into the problem that the whole concept of social investing flies in the face of the fiduciary responsibility of the people making investing decisions (whose job is to maximize investment returns). From a business perspective, I would always expect the investment/philanthropy decision-makers to be separated. Of course, the idealist in me would also hope that those investors would not be total wankers.

What puzzled me was that the article did say they explicitly avoided tobacco companies. Unless that's also for sound financial reasons about future expected earnings, that policy seems to contradict the complete separation of the two branches.

I'm sure there are more now, but interested institutions would still run into the problem that the whole concept of social investing flies in the face of the fiduciary responsibility of the people making investing decisions (whose job is to maximize investment returns).

I definitely see that as the key issue -- are you using your investments to maximize returns, or to promote the values you're promoting through your philanthropy? I think the argument could be made either way.

I definitely see that as the key issue -- are you using your investments to maximize returns, or to promote the values you're promoting through your philanthropy? I think the argument could be made either way.

Haven't a number of socially responsible companies run into the same conflict? Ben & Jerry's and The Body Shop come to mind.

I wasn't able to bring my TV to the electronics recycling thing, but I was able to cart my stereo and a bunch of smaller things.

Yay for getting rid of stuff!

Haven't a number of socially responsible companies run into the same conflict? Ben & Jerry's and The Body Shop come to mind.

Yeah, that sounds right. The real problem is that every industry fucks with people and/or the earth when you go back far enough. I mean, right?