Spike: I'm not a monster. Xander: Yes! You are a monster. Vampires are monsters! They make monster movies about them! Spike: Well, yeah. Got me there.

'Dirty Girls'


Other Media 2: It's Astounishing!

Discussion of comics, graphic novels, and more. Except for capes. No capes!

Please use spoiler font for new releases until after the weekend following release.


DavidS - Dec 05, 2009 2:53:50 pm PST #2613 of 5059
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Okay, I buy some of that. But reading into Green Goblin's continued depiction as hermaphroditic because his lower half is obscured by a female form? That's just working at it.

Yeah, but the "get me my coffee" scene was obnoxious.


§ ita § - Dec 05, 2009 3:07:46 pm PST #2614 of 5059
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

As I said, I buy some of it. But it sabotages itself.


DavidS - Dec 05, 2009 3:36:31 pm PST #2615 of 5059
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

As I said, I buy some of it. But it sabotages itself.

I would say some arguments are less compelling than others, or a reach. I wouldn't say the thesis itself is undermined.


§ ita § - Dec 05, 2009 4:03:44 pm PST #2616 of 5059
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Thesis, no. Perhaps it's better to say the author undermines their own credibility by seeming out of control on some points. While it doesn't contradict other points of the thesis, I'm considerably less likely to give the author the benefit of the doubt when I spot some times I think they're clearly on message-driven crack.


DavidS - Dec 05, 2009 4:09:11 pm PST #2617 of 5059
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

Perhaps it's better to say the author undermines their own credibility by seeming out of control on some points. While it doesn't contradict other points of the thesis, I'm considerably less likely to give the author the benefit of the doubt when I spot some times I think they're clearly on message-driven crack.

Fair distinction.


Tom Scola - Dec 07, 2009 7:50:29 am PST #2618 of 5059
Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.

...And DC reaches for the reset button yet again: [link]


§ ita § - Dec 07, 2009 7:59:49 am PST #2619 of 5059
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Well, it's only kinda a reset button. It doesn't affect any current titles. It's yet another universe.

Poor original Crisis. All for naught.


DavidS - Dec 07, 2009 8:00:18 am PST #2620 of 5059
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

...And DC reaches for the reset button yet again: [link]

I think they should just acknowledge the necessity to reset or wriggle out from under continuity and build it into the plan, that way fans wouldn't be pissed or feel betrayed.

Like, have a set five year plan. Let your writers do whatever they want for five years, let characters live and die and change and then put an end-stop on that cycle at five years and get everybody geared up for a new cycle.

Then it would be more like the fond way Dr. Who fans compare different Doctors than the bitter way comic fans talk about resets and tortured continuity. "Yeah, Cycle 2 Batman was fantastic, but I actually preferred the Batman/Robin Dynamic in Cycle 5."


§ ita § - Dec 07, 2009 8:12:38 am PST #2621 of 5059
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

But with this they aren't torturing continuity. They're writing another Batman and Superman. So you can compare that Batman to others. Just that "ours" has long lost any meaning.


Tom Scola - Dec 07, 2009 8:15:17 am PST #2622 of 5059
Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.

Yeah, manga are kicking the USAs collective ass, and the companies aren't learning from them.

Instead of relying on hot shit writers and artists, things ought to be done like manga, with a team of writers and artists working out of their own studio, with all the artwork on model, and with an overreaching story arc that comes to a definite conclusion.