Hopefully they'll fill time in the summer, Morgana.

you're a candle in the window on a cold dark winter's night...

*is ded*

I was doing the flailing over "Croatoan" last night, as I do every time I see it. I know Sam is the unquestioned holder of the title "High Prince of Angst," but damn if Dean didn't bring it home. Knowing that he unquestioningly stayed behind, knowing that they were out of options, fully planning to execute Sam when the time came, and then to kill himself.... wibble. Oh, boys....

My main frustration with the John-haters is -- wtf is NORMAL in that situation?

I think he did the best he could in a really weird situation.

The sense I get (and I'm not speaking for you, Morgana) is that many of them identify so strongly with Dean and Sam, and John does hurt his sons in many ways (though mostly unintentionally), that they can't get past that to see that maybe John had logical reasons for doing what he did. That in fact nobody could have done much of a better job, given those circumstances.

It's kind of like some slash fans lashing out at the woman in the room, because she threatens, via her heterosexual attraction, their OTP. John hurt Dean, therefore John is a Bad Father.

Dean's got his suave, his sarcasm, his natural charm, but he can't play normal like Sam can.

This is why I have my personal theory/belief that Sam learned normal as a defense against being the weird and awkward-looking kid, as well as as his way to rebel, where Dean a: probably considered leaving his socks around a grand act of rebelling; and b: got by well enough on surface things like charm and looks that he didn't have to learn normal.

He's been demonstrated to be able to play whatever professional part fairly well, hasn't he? (I've not seen all of S1, I think)

Blue collar things, he's able to fake. White collar, not as easily. There are, of course, exceptions to that, but it holds well enough as a general rule. (See: Supernatural and class-coding, and that whole essay I want to write some day on Sam, Dean, and moving between classes.)

And if it meant protecting them so they would be alive instead of dead, I think he would be okay with that. Even if they never did forgive him.

Yeah. I think we have similar mental Johns.

The defining scenes for me, with John, are John and Sam bonding over college money gone for ammo, and the one my LJ default icon of the moment is from, with him making the deal with the YED.

Knowing that he unquestioningly stayed behind, knowing that they were out of options, fully planning to execute Sam when the time came, and then to kill himself....

Oh, yeah. And knowing now what burden he was carrying, the almost relieved resignation to their fate hits extra-hard.

Plei, and anyone/everyone else-- Hell House?

Well, I've got the lights off and a half-asleep baby in my arms.

Makes it hard. Maybe in 15, if the spouse is willing and the kidlet's dropped off?

That works--- Cass is grabbing some food.

Blue collar things, he's able to fake. White collar, not as easily. There are, of course, exceptions to that, but it holds well enough as a general rule. (See: Supernatural and class-coding, and that whole essay I want to write some day on Sam, Dean, and moving between classes.)

Ooooh. Interesting.

Yeah, Plei, you need to write that essay on class. Mely's had a few entries about it, and I have sort of thought about it (although more in the context of the social geography of the show), but someone really needs to do a dense evaluation of what the show is saying.

I do find it interesting that Sam is still trying to stay in the middle class ("normal" is "middle class", at least in tv and film), while Dean is comfortably working class and has no apparent interest in moving.