Dean's got his suave, his sarcasm, his natural charm, but he can't play normal like Sam can.

This is why I have my personal theory/belief that Sam learned normal as a defense against being the weird and awkward-looking kid, as well as as his way to rebel, where Dean a: probably considered leaving his socks around a grand act of rebelling; and b: got by well enough on surface things like charm and looks that he didn't have to learn normal.

He's been demonstrated to be able to play whatever professional part fairly well, hasn't he? (I've not seen all of S1, I think)

Blue collar things, he's able to fake. White collar, not as easily. There are, of course, exceptions to that, but it holds well enough as a general rule. (See: Supernatural and class-coding, and that whole essay I want to write some day on Sam, Dean, and moving between classes.)

And if it meant protecting them so they would be alive instead of dead, I think he would be okay with that. Even if they never did forgive him.

Yeah. I think we have similar mental Johns.

The defining scenes for me, with John, are John and Sam bonding over college money gone for ammo, and the one my LJ default icon of the moment is from, with him making the deal with the YED.

Knowing that he unquestioningly stayed behind, knowing that they were out of options, fully planning to execute Sam when the time came, and then to kill himself....

Oh, yeah. And knowing now what burden he was carrying, the almost relieved resignation to their fate hits extra-hard.

Plei, and anyone/everyone else-- Hell House?

Well, I've got the lights off and a half-asleep baby in my arms.

Makes it hard. Maybe in 15, if the spouse is willing and the kidlet's dropped off?

That works--- Cass is grabbing some food.

Blue collar things, he's able to fake. White collar, not as easily. There are, of course, exceptions to that, but it holds well enough as a general rule. (See: Supernatural and class-coding, and that whole essay I want to write some day on Sam, Dean, and moving between classes.)

Ooooh. Interesting.

Yeah, Plei, you need to write that essay on class. Mely's had a few entries about it, and I have sort of thought about it (although more in the context of the social geography of the show), but someone really needs to do a dense evaluation of what the show is saying.

I do find it interesting that Sam is still trying to stay in the middle class ("normal" is "middle class", at least in tv and film), while Dean is comfortably working class and has no apparent interest in moving.

Plei? Should we keep waiting?

Yeah, Plei, you need to write that essay on class. Mely's had a few entries about it, and I have sort of thought about it (although more in the context of the social geography of the show), but someone really needs to do a dense evaluation of what the show is saying.

I do. Which, oh hardship, will require some rewatching. I was recently reading an essay, written by a lesbian from a working class family who got out, got the education that her family (her mother in particular) hadn't, in large part due to sacrifices in her mother's part. It was painful to read, in many ways, because as much as they loved each other, the differences in tastes, behaviors, and expectations that came with the daughter's move into the middle class world strained their relationship and communication in ways that I recognize (from my life, and my family's life), and in ways that I see in some of the interaction between Sam and Dean.

And it's something that I see Sam and Dean as both being very conscious of, even if they don't articulate it.

What interests me most is that it's not presented in terms of one value set/level of education/class being better or worse, but rather as what it is, which is just another one of those things that's a tension within families.

YOu guys got room for one more? Let me move to the laptop.

Plei? Should we keep waiting?

Go ahead and watch without me. Paul's still in the other room, my eyes are still a little itchy, so I'm gonna bow out of this one.