Deena, insent with edits about street talk and dealing with the Rat Squad.(Why do I feel like I've got a reputation? Cause I do.) Hope it helps. Loved the ending..I think if you give some more thought to your main characters, you could really have something there.

Up there with Michael for a girl. What are parents thinking, when they do this stuff?

Can't speak for Howard, because I think it's not euphonic, but I'm all about naming a girl Michael. I think it sounds very pretty, and I have no intention of having boys (even if I do, I think it sounds better on a girl).

She won't be the first, and she'll live.

ita, the name is pretty. So is Mirabella. Or Annamaria.

Point I was trying for - and looking at the interconnectivity - is that the kid has to get through first grade, and the really long name or blatantly other-gender name is likely to inhibit that.

Odd name, by itself? Not a problem (edit: in the sense I was going for - obviously, it can be a huge problem). But the five year old Michael girl who has to share classroom space with a bunch of five year old Michael boys is going to have to deal with a lot of rib-digging.

My problem with Anfernee as a name for a five year old is that he had to write it, in full, across all of his classwork from first grade on.

Life's hard enough for a five or six year old kid. Why saddle said child with yet one more thing to make their life harder, when it's perfectly simple not to?

My problem with Anfernee as a name for a five year old is that he had to write it, in full, across all of his classwork from first grade on.

Is it worse than Arabella? Or Wentworth? It's not hard to learn to spell your own name -- it's the other people who'll mangle it incessantly.

But the five year old Michael girl who has to share classroom space with a bunch of five year old Michael boys is going to have to deal with a lot of rib-digging.

The Susans I went to school with had to deal with a lot of rib-digging. I do think there are stupid names, but mostly those are Vagina and Halitosis. I dislike the NaKeishya school of naming a lot too, but I can't knock it. It's just not my tribe.

Why saddle said child with yet one more thing to make their life harder, when it's perfectly simple not to?

That would have had me named Mary. I'm glad it didn't work out that way.

Anfernee is a letter shorter than Elizabeth and the same length as Jonathan. It's not to my taste, but I don't think it's "worse" than Antwan or Kloey or any of the other things people do to their kids' names to make them look special. If I ran the world, everyone would have to spell names in a reasonably standard fashion, but I do not.

I went to grade school with a girl named Michael. I do not remember her getting any special grief over her name. Howard is problematic to me more because it's ugly than because it's a boy's name, though I do think it's sadistic to use male first and middle names on a female child (or vice versa).

Is it worse than Arabella? Or Wentworth?

OK, where did we get the concept of better or worse? Because that's not what I was talking about. And I wouldn't name a kid either of those, but I'm talking about length. If Anfernee's teachers let him write "A. Hardaway" atop all his schoolwork, he was probably fine. But the full, clutch-the-pencil and print your name scrawl of a long first name and a long last name, is hard on a kid. See below.

ita, you grew up with a three-letter first name, nice and easy to write out. Not a question of being hard to spell - a question of being long. For the first eleven or so years of my life, I had to write out my first and middle names, until one day in English class something clicked and I threw the pencil on the floor and stormed out of the room in tears. I've long since lost the middle name, and won't go into it here. But ask yourself: when you're maybe seven years old, would you rather have to sit and fill out every piece of homework, sometimes a dozen times a day, with, say, "Mary Jones" or "Annamaria Sophialisa McGillacuddy"? Don't know about you, but I'd have traded my familial insistence on my using first and middle names as a kid for your three-letter first name any day of the week. I finally refused to go back to school unless they re-registered me. Feh.

The Susans I went to school with had to deal with a lot of rib-digging.

Why?

I do think there are stupid names, but mostly those are Vagina and Halitosis.

having known a Sunshine, a Moonbeam and (honestly) a Lingam and a Yoni? Yup. So I repeat, why do parents do that to their kids?

I dislike the NaKeishya school of naming a lot too, but I can't knock it. It's just not my tribe.

Oh, I'm not talking about that - I used Anfernee Hardaway specifically because we were talking about him specifically. And where I was going was, he not only has the long full name, his nickname (Penny) is almost exclusively a female-specific nicknamre in the US, which is where he grew up. So his parents seem to have gone out of his way to make it harder for him.

Deb, I guess I've never heard an Elisabeth or a Catherine complain about having to write a long name. I had no idea it was such a travail.

I fairly often used my full name, which clocks in at 19 letters. It honestly never bothered me.

Why?

Because kids can be really nasty, and if kid x is going to be teased, they're going to be teased. Name, hair colour, clothes, parents' car, breath, anything.

is nickname (Penny) is almost exclusively a female-specific nicknamre in the US, which is where he grew up. So his parents seem to have gone out of his way to make it harder for him.

Did they nickname him Penny?

I've had people opine that weird names are parents making it hard for their kids. Mine didn't make it hard for me. Hers made it hard for my sister, but she's now glad they did.

So I'm very hypersensitive to the "don't do that to your kids!" reaction to naming. I love my name to pieces, and am glad my parents are clueless.

I like my unusually-spelled name, and am not at all sorry I have it, but my children (should I have any) will have the most common spelling of their name - and may well get a name with only one popularly-known spelling. Because damn if it's not irritating to actually spell K-a-t-h-e-r-i-n and then watch them put the e on the end.

Because kids can be really nasty, and if kid x is going to be teased, they're going to be teased. Name, hair colour, clothes, parents' car, breath, anything.

No, no. I totally agree - that was kinda my point. I mean, why the Susans, specifically, rather than, say, the Roberts or the Lindas? What was it about Susan that triggered?

First I heard about Anfernee Hardaway was during the draft. And the local affilliate announcers, even as they were discussing who was going to go high up in the first round, were saying how he was probably a good tough player, since growing up as a boy called "Penny", well...

I have no problems with "weird" names. Not sure what qualifies as "weird", although I think, like you, that naming your child "Punchbottom" or "Marmaduke" - or naming your daughter Harvey - is going to add to the already-tough reality of being a kid.

Last thing? I see your nineteen letters when you wrote out your full name and raise you an additional 13 letters. Also? Fucking teachers insisted on CALLING me by both names.

It sucked really really relly really big donkey dicks. To the point, in fact, that I legally lost the middle name.

We have a problematic last name, little-known ethnic, and some people just flat refuse to try it. I've been called familiarly by my first name by people whom I'd rather not do that, because they're afraid to assay the pronunciation of Ms. Um. I usually respond to the first syllable, because I'm not cruel enough to wait and see how they're going to struggle through it.

We gave the first child an at-that-time rarely used but ordinary name with available diminutives firstname, his father's ethnic given name as a middle name. We always used the full name firstname. The second we named an ethnic firstname with an easy translation, a frequent family name from my side as the middle name, and we always used the full firstname. We told them both they were welcome to use diminutives or translations, whatever they preferred. The eldest opted for a one-syllable dim of his familiar but now overused firstname. The second dug in his heels and kept the unfamiliar first, and has corrected pronunciation and spelling on first and last throughout his life since kindergarten.

Kids is different, and some will kvetch over their name, some will glory in the distinction. There's no sure way to please them. I hated Beverly--growing up the only other Beverly I--or anyone of my aquaintance--knew was a man. An old, ugly man. I wanted to be Brenda, Linda, Lynn or Sue. Now I'm comfortable with my name.