P-C, you could also start talking to her about [insert something very personal that may involve burning sensations], then again that could backfire and make her call you more.

Beth's got it right. You have to figure out what strategies will work and then implement them. "Sorry mom - gotta go. The store/library/porn shoppe is closing a half hour."

P-C, you can tell your mom that not all whites have different views, because your family sounds EXACTLY like my white Southern Presbyterian family. Right down to the mixed messages about money and the innocent miscommunications for which you and only you must humbly apologize. I was the family black sheep, too. At least in this generation. It sucks.

Honestly, it will be easier when you have your own place.

I had my own place for two years before I moved here.

But you were in school then. And wasn't your family financially supporting you through school (even partially)?

When you're totally financially independent, and living in your own place, it's going to be different.

Ok, is it me, or does this actually sound like a softening in your mother's viewpoint. She's at least acknowledging that you may in fact make a choice.

Oh, she's been saying that for about a year now, I think. I don't recall when that business actually entered the picture, but it's not new.

She would say "I called you, why didn't you call me back?" I would say "I did. I left a message on Tuesday" and she would say "well, why didn't you keep calling until you talked to me?" I said "because _you_ wanted to talk to me. I'm not going to keep calling you because you want to tell me something" She was pissed, but I stuck to my guns.

Oh, rock on. I don't even bother leaving messages because, what's the point? I show up as a missed call. That's all the evidence that matters. And it doesn't matter anyway. My mom, on the other hand, leaves message after message if I don't call back, as if I care.

But you were in school then. And wasn't your family financially supporting you through school (even partially)?

I was in school for one of those years (well, two, but the first year, I had a roommate), and the other close-to-a-year, I was living off my savings and, come September, meager paycheck, which were mine and utterly mine. I've been basically financially independent since I went off to grad school and started getting a stipend and paying my own rent. Any time my dad asked me if I needed money, I said I was fine, which didn't stop him from giving me some cash any time I visited home. But I never asked for money because I honestly didn't need it. The last semester of grad school, I had to take out a loan, and my dad covered the unsubsidized portion, and I've been paying back the subsidized portion. When I accrue a few thousand dollars extra, I would like to attempt to pay my dad back, even though I know he won't accept it.

But Steph, this is a conversation that occurred in late 2003, my first semester of grad school, to give you a sense of...things:

My little sister was admiring my cell phone.

"Who pays for your cell phone?" she asked.

"I do," I said.

"Me," said my mom.

"What?!"

"Don't the bills come to me?"

"No, the bills come to me, and I pay them." Her name was on the bill because her credit card was approved when she bought me the phone, but she fucking knew the bills came to me.

"Where do you get the money?" asked my sister.

"School," I said.

"Well, Daddy, right now," said my mom.

"What?!" I said. "The school pays me, I'm making money!"

It boggled my mind because both her responses were flat-out lies.

When you're totally financially independent, and living in your own place, it's going to be different.

Exactly. Very, very different.

oh, you have to make the call. ow.

mom trainning time. Call her. with a specific question - what's the best way to get ink out of my cotton pants. Thanks mom , love ya , gotta go do laundry. come on mom, you don't want me looking like a slob in public. love ya bye. hang up.

When every she calls - give her a few minutes - ask about her day , your dad, you brothers.

it is manipulative, but she has been doing it to you. she doesn't respond to the straight forward behavior.

Thanks for the suggestions, beth. I've thought about that, I have, but I just never ever want to talk to her ever because it almost always manages to ruin my day somehow.

"This has nothing to do with me, my family is recreating communication patterns they learned from their family and that must be painful for them, but it really doesn't have anything to do with me.

This is so describes my Dad's communications with his mother (my Grandma E). For whatever reason he's convinced that if she makes a suggestion, like offering to come over or asking if I'll go visit her, and then she's told "no" it will crush her/make her upset and make his life miserable. But I think there's so much passive aggressiveness going on that my Dad ends up sending mixed messages and confusing everyone.

Case in point, the day he left the hospital after his heart attack. Grandma E called the night before to ask if it would be okay to visit him, Dad was heming and hawing and trying to non answer so I took the phone from him (I think the nurse wa there) and told Grandma E that since he was being discharged in the morning I didn't think there would be much time for a visit, but once I got him home I'd call her and let her know how things went.

Dad wanted to know how badly she took it and if she made a fuss and I told him "No fuss, she just had some other plans and wanted to know if she should change them. I told her I'd call once your home and let her know when you feel like company."

Dad still puts himself through all this drama even though I've demonstrated several times that saying no doesn't freak her out.

DH's mom likes to give advice. She used to call really early in the morning and give advice, about things that were taken care of. She got a lot better about giving advice when I cam on the scene. Because I don't talk much before 9. so I was polite, but vaguely non -responsive. " done" "did it" I just didn't react much one way or the other. - completely different than her sons. Some how my non- reactin - translated to Matt aw well. She gives much less unwanted advice now.

Dad still puts himself through all this drama even though I've demonstrated several times that saying no doesn't freak her out.

See there? A vague disclaimer really IS nobody's friend.

Go you with the directness.

Even when it doesn't work, vis a vis the recipient's response, at least you know you've done the best you could and can walk away from the interaction clean. The non-answer is like tar that never comes off the bottom of your shoe. After a lifetime of that dynamic, is it any wonder that we (metaphorically) wobble around and fall so easily?