"This has nothing to do with me, my family is recreating communication patterns they learned from their family and that must be painful for them, but it really doesn't have anything to do with me.

This is so describes my Dad's communications with his mother (my Grandma E). For whatever reason he's convinced that if she makes a suggestion, like offering to come over or asking if I'll go visit her, and then she's told "no" it will crush her/make her upset and make his life miserable. But I think there's so much passive aggressiveness going on that my Dad ends up sending mixed messages and confusing everyone.

Case in point, the day he left the hospital after his heart attack. Grandma E called the night before to ask if it would be okay to visit him, Dad was heming and hawing and trying to non answer so I took the phone from him (I think the nurse wa there) and told Grandma E that since he was being discharged in the morning I didn't think there would be much time for a visit, but once I got him home I'd call her and let her know how things went.

Dad wanted to know how badly she took it and if she made a fuss and I told him "No fuss, she just had some other plans and wanted to know if she should change them. I told her I'd call once your home and let her know when you feel like company."

Dad still puts himself through all this drama even though I've demonstrated several times that saying no doesn't freak her out.

DH's mom likes to give advice. She used to call really early in the morning and give advice, about things that were taken care of. She got a lot better about giving advice when I cam on the scene. Because I don't talk much before 9. so I was polite, but vaguely non -responsive. " done" "did it" I just didn't react much one way or the other. - completely different than her sons. Some how my non- reactin - translated to Matt aw well. She gives much less unwanted advice now.

Dad still puts himself through all this drama even though I've demonstrated several times that saying no doesn't freak her out.

See there? A vague disclaimer really IS nobody's friend.

Go you with the directness.

Even when it doesn't work, vis a vis the recipient's response, at least you know you've done the best you could and can walk away from the interaction clean. The non-answer is like tar that never comes off the bottom of your shoe. After a lifetime of that dynamic, is it any wonder that we (metaphorically) wobble around and fall so easily?

post toasties:

completely different than her sons. Some how my non- reactin - translated to Matt aw well. She gives much less unwanted advice now.

Extinguishing the behavior through non-reinforcement. Awesome!

That too, i know P-C. There is no need to take my advice. I promise not to scold you for not doing what i say. But , if you don't want to cut her out of your life completely, you have to find someway of dealing wiht her. and if you can do it with in her world view - at least at first, it will be easier in the long run. Your mom is clinging , her ego is invested in you needing her. That's not fair at all. but you can use that.

I have a friend whose parents were that inested. they would threten to throw him out of the house. so he left for 2 weeks , no forwarding address his parents were frantic and so grateful that he came back home. Guess who had the power then? my parents - less ego invovled in there kids. If we had pulled a stunt like that - comming back home woud not have been so easy. Trust would have been broken. of course, my parents didn't make empty threats either

and I am talking way too much. I should go do something.

Dear Mrs. Cow:

I have sent your precious son two hundred current personal ads. These ads are from the skankiest girls (and occasional flamboyant boy) I could find. They are white and black and MIXED and various flavors of Asian and South American and there is not one Indian among them. They have been selected for their disreputable famalies as well. Every week I will send him two hundred fresh ones (and I do mean "fresh"). Some weeks we will have themes. Next week I'm thinking "strippers", the week after "IV DRUG USERS WHO NEVER CALL THEIR MOTHERS!!!!!".

Every time you give your son shit he will answer one of these ads.

You get one warning. As soon as you start he'll say, "Mom, don't make garbage man's daughter...." "hmm... this is blurry, does it say 'pre-op' or 'POST-op'....." or possibly "Mmmmmm BLONDES". You keep it up, and he starts callin'

It's up to you Mrs. Cow. Lay off the kid or your family tree gets it.

Hee, Trudes.

South American? Hot!

South American? Hot!

But, Mom, She's INDIAN!

{{P-C}} Lots of good advice. I'm glad you have this place to vent.

I just can't get Beverly and family out of my thoughts. I do hope she is able to get some rest and that the doctors are making progress. On edge waiting for an update. I don't want to call her because I hope she is resting.

Dear People of the World,

Lay off P-C.

Cash the checks I send you so I don't think I have more money than I do.

Pay your rent so your roommates don't have to cover you.

OKTHNXBYE!

-vw bug