After Firefly's demise, I swore off Fox. I think that lasted about a year or so, and then I found House, and then Bones, both of which are holding strong. I am weak.

Whenever they talk about Neilsen ratings, I always wonder how they determine who gets to be in that club. I've never known anyone who was a Neilsen viewer. I suspect that they're not accurately representing some viewers (big shock, yeah, I know).

Of course, I get no opinion I guess, because I don't watch commercials at all.

Sure. But what I'm saying is, that doesn't matter a jot.

Based on what, Allyson? Some people don't bother watching shows because they know they will get cancelled. That effects net viewing figures to some extent.

Some people don't bother watching shows because they know they will get cancelled. That effects net viewing figures to some extent.

Just because you've seen some comments online, and you've spoken to a few people, doesn't mean that the effect will be significant enough to be even a blip on Fox's ratings.

I don't think the vast majority of Americans identify shows with particular networks except for the part where they need to know where to click to.

My family was briefly a Nielsen family way back when. We got this booklet diary that had all the viewing times broken down (by half or quarter hour, I forget which), and we recorded what we watched and who was in the room watching for each viewing period.

Of course, this was long enough ago that we were marking things like first-run episodes of Simon & Simon.

Just because you've seen some comments online, and you've spoken to a few people, doesn't mean that the effect will be significant enough to be even a blip on Fox's ratings.

This is, of course, true. There's no data either way to prove impact. What I can say is nearly every single print review of Drive I read went on about Tim's cancellation past, and a great many about how it would get cancelled after a few episodes. That's also gotta have some kind of an impact, but you're probably right -- I doubt it's enough to have a really big impact. I'd love to see actual research on why people _don't_ watch a big launch show, though.

Nada. I don't know. Personally I think Drive looks bad for FOX due to the nature of launching yet-another big show, and yet again having it fall over straight away if they put House in it's place.

We are not them. That is the biggest lesson that Buffy/Angel/Firefly/Wonderfalls/etc. has taught me.

Even many of the people I talk to about TV outside of us? Still not them.

Whose eyes does Fox want? Them. Their eyes.

I have not gotten much other than fierce love for Firefly and Profit and Wonderfalls from the people I've introduced it to. Doesn't matter though. We don't count.

Between House, Bones, 24, Prison Break, I'm not sure how you can say scripted drama isn't working for Fox, as a general rule. Why these particular shows aren't working is another question, and I don't have any idea what the answer is.

Some people don't bother watching shows because they know they will get cancelled. That effects net viewing figures to some extent.

Not really. It would only matter if those people were Nielson families. And since those people would know that their viewing would help decide what goes and stays, I wouldn't think their attitude would be the same as an average viewer.

Personally I think Drive looks bad for FOX due to the nature of launching yet-another big show, and yet again having it fall over straight away if they put House in it's place.

I think those things may end up being bad for the executive(s) who green lighted it, but I don't think it affects the network per se, other than influencing what they are going to green light the next time. It's not that they'll think "gee, maybe we should give the next one like that a chance to find it's audience", it's going to be more "well, let's not do THAT again".