I recall disliking the story. My disbelief couldn't suspend. But by that point, there was the whole St. Cordelia thing with the you're a champion, Angel, and the schtuping Connor and the ascending and the champion and the Angel/Cordy and the champion and then I was cooked.

See, I can completely understand having issues with the whole Cordelia thing and/or Connor. I can't comprehend someone not liking the character of Illyria. Amy rocked that part. I guess I just don't get someone feeling betrayed over Fred's death (or whatever), but then I will never in a million years understand the vagaries of Buffyverse fandom.

The Firelfy folks, I get. Not that I always agree, but I get them. The Buffy fandom, baffles me.

I didn't miss Fred at all, lord knows. The only thing funnier than Fred dying was Wesley dying. And Amy Acker was very good in the role.

But Illyria, the character, was still a boring, cliched waste of time. I mean, honestly. What was the point of all that?

Strega, I bawled when Wesley was killed and I loved Illyria. My suspension of disbelief is alive and well, I guess.

In retrospect, I like Illyria, but I didn't at the time. I'm not sure why, although I think it was probably something along the same line as Allyson, with the whole suspension of disbelief being overworked. Part of it may also be that I connect Illyria and cancellation in my mind. Or, as I think about it, perhaps it's just that I didn't like Wesley with Illyria. In any case, I agree that Amy's acting was outstanding, and it wasn't that I felt bad about losing Fred (well, yes, I cried during the eps because of the skillful tugging at heartstrings, but still), as I never was much into Fred, and kind of gave up on her when she and Gunn broke up.

I liked Illyria. I get the suspension of disbelief thing though. I couldn't imagine her working as a regular in the earlier seasons, interacting with characters like Doyle and Kate (ignoring the fact that would be impossible, continuity-wise). Similarly, seeing Number Five delivering mail in the Wolfram and Hart offices while Holland is deciding whether to kill Lindsey in "Blind Date" would be just as jarring, tonally.

At the moment I'm now trying to get to grips with the fact that the same Buffy from small town California who partied at the Bronze is now jumping out of helicopters and vaporizing force fields with guns.

I never took to Fred. There were moments I felt differently, but on the whole, I never understood her presence in the story, in the first place. I felt terribly sad when she died -- but in a way that made me feel emotionally manipulated. Storytelling involves emotional manipulation, but it shouldn't make you feel cheap and easy, the morning after.

I thought Amy Acker knocked the Illyria role out of the park, but that the character of Illyria wasn't worth it. Suddenly, we didn't have to deal with the fallout of Wes/Fred/Gunn. We just had to look at someone who posed like a bug. A lot.

(ignoring the fact that would be impossible, continuity-wise).

Given what we saw in "Time Bomb," it actually might not be, though of course Glenn Quinn's real-life absence would have been insurmountable.

I really liked Illyria as a character, though I don't think they came up with an actual good reason for it to hang around after the end of "Shells." Acker was just great in the part.

edited because I don't think Illyria was a "her" despite appearances.

P.S. Jackal, you might want to white font your comments about the Buffy comic. In the comic thread, they white font comments about the current issue until a week after the release of the subsequent issue. There has been a lot of talk about it in our Comics thread. The discussion starts here: sumi "Other Media 2: It's Astounishing!" Mar 14, 2007 11:47:48 am PDT. I also have a big post about it, in my LJ, where you don't have to use white font. [link] (complete spoilers for issue one of BtVS Season 8 at that last link).

Characters hanging around for no reason has happened before -- Spike being a good example in season 4 of Buffy (and season 7) (and season 5 in Angel).

See, the thing I found with Fred was -- Amy Acker is So Very Cute. And Fred was So Very Dull most of the time (exception: 'Billy'). But I didn't mind so much, because of the pretty. I thought Illyria worked great, because it gave Amy a character to actually play, and personally I thought the interactions between Wes and Illyria worked great as it taught me a bit about Wes I didn't realise. I thought the delivery of Illyria by Joss was done... emotionally. But at the same time, kinda eye rollingly in some ways (who'd of thunk that Wes and Fred finally get together and then one of them dies).

I think the Illyria thing ultimately needed time to pay back, as we never got to see where they were going with the character.

And please lord. Angel, the champion, Cordy, vomit.