Ah. So a gaze like basalt would be a medium hard gaze.

Good.

And...another 1/2 chapter before I collapse into bed! Whee!

---

And despite what Hec says, I've heard from people who Actually Live There (and have children, even!) that with the public transit system, cars are really optional.

That's also what JZ reports from her brother (who lives there). But that was not my experience when I visited ex-GF. (Nor her experience there.) It just isn't as dense as SF - which is part of the charm, really. There's space. The other ding is that the economy hasn't been great there. It had some of the worst unemployment in the country a few years ago. There's always going to be more economic engine in Seattle or SF.

Not to discourage - like, I said - if I were young and on the loose that's where I'd be going now that New Orleans is in recovery mode for who knows how long. Portland is a great city to be a bohemian right now. Affordable but lots going on.

The dings on SF are mostly expense. As a parent I'd also list the local schools as a liability. That is why I'm planning on moving to the East Bay when the Halloweenie is of age. There's nothing really bad about living here aside from the cost. It's dense but small, big financial core but lots of green space. Oceans to mountains with a couple hours.

Food's not bad either.

LA's got a lot going for it too. I'd say the biggest problems there (for me) are the smog and the spread and the traffic. But you can get around some of that by picking where you live and work. Still, proximity makes a big difference in getting together with people. There are so many neighborhoods and cool spots in LA that I love.

---

Remember, I keep grudges for decades

Any grudge worth having, is worth keeping.

I've been pondering this for months now, and I still can't figure out how I'm going to decide between L.A., San Francisco, and Portland.

Portland.

If you want actual reasons, I can give you quality and cost of living information as well, but mostly? Portland.

And likely you wouldn't be happy in all three cities. They are quite different.

Very personally, I loathed living in LA. I also am in no way an NYC girl. Others are never happier than when they are in those cities.

Hec does sum up cities rather well, I might add. Not without bias, but who doesn't when pimping cities...

Gonna have to go down and have a little neighborly talk with them tomorrow

At the very least. Hope the rest of your night was restful, bug.

A vote for Portland from a lurker who has lived here for 17 years

Hi, Margaret T. See? Lurkers who know? Choose Portland.

---

About portland and transit - it depends. If you live and work along the MAX line, then you will have plenty of shopping, fine resteraunts and great culture within walking distance of the same light rail. Add in a FlexCar subscription for hospitals and other important locations not on the MAX and you can live a mostly car-free life without troublel. (There are hospitals on doctors on the MAX line as well, but some of the big one are not.)

Here you see the secret. Huge portions of Portland and outlying areas are on the MAX but huge portions aren't. So if your job is not on the MAX line, then getting there without a car will suck mightily cause bus transit in Portland takes about twice the time of traveling to the same place by car. In short large parts of Portland (and some really wonderful parts at that) are on a really nice light rail line. You can live your life pretty much car free if you confine most of your life to those parts - and that is easy to do if work allows it. But some really lovely parts of the city are not on the rail line. So if you want to do stuff in those parts, or if you work in those parts, or if your doctor is in those parts life is tough without a car.

Hence the contradiction. Hec experienced Portland as requiring a car, because the ex-gf lives really far from any MAX stations, and possibly other parts he enjoys are too. But large parts of the city are on the MAX; Powells is about a ten minute walk from nearest MAX stop for example.

---

waves at Margaret T

Since you lived in Portland for so many years, I'm going to assume that you are NOT Margaret Thatcher.

....you aren't Margaret Thatcher, are you?

t /nervous

eta

Nevertheless, I'm tickled that the lurkers support Portland in email.

---

Welcome Not-Margaret-Thatcher.

And Fay; don't worry. I think Margaret Thatcher is more of a "7th Heaven" fan.

---

Nevertheless, I'm tickled that the lurkers support Portland in email.

As am I.

I just waved in lots of directions, just to say hi.

---

Hi folks. I'm back on my comfortable computer at home in Athens, and just skipped about 2000 messages in this thread. I've been up for 28 hours (and counting!) now, so even though it's the middle of the day and I shouldn't, I'm going to nap.

My suitcase was misrouted again coming from NM, but they didn't go for the hat trick and I actually got it in Athens! Two "baggage irregularities" in one trip, though - I'm developing a complex.

---

My sinuses are doing their LavaLamp impression.

Tylenol's cough and sore throat liquid promising "instant Cool Burst sensation" isn't wrong so much as much implies the sensation is a good thing. It isn't.

And yet? I am feeling so much better. Sad to realize how yuck I have been.

Off to bed now.

---

Evil neighbors. I never really did get fully back to sleep. I was jumpy all night. And now I get to start my class without really being with it.

Oh, well. Life goes on. At least I can nap this afternoon.

---